9/11 Thread-Continued from FE General

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 09:27:33 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on March 22, 2013, 09:25:30 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 09:18:28 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on March 22, 2013, 09:16:30 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 07:55:36 AM

Quote from: Saddam Hussein on March 22, 2013, 07:50:47 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 07:11:54 AM

I believe the buildings were basically empty. I think is was a perfect psyop that worked in 3 ways, maybe more.

On behalf of those of us who actually lost friends and family on 9/11, fuck you.

Use the rant section.

Right there and you already replied to it.  Stop being immature.

I don't think he means what you think he means.

I will let Saddam speak for himself.

Yes, let Saddam speak for himself eh, that way it might stop you whining like a little girl.

I am not sure you know what whining means.

Of course I do. You are doing it and the others in this topic. Like a pack of screaming whining kids.
You put up the topic and are now whining. What's the matter with you, you big girls blouse.

This thread again? Scepti, what's your stance on the Holocaust?

This thread again? Scepti, what's your stance on the Holocaust?

No stance on it whatsoever, I have never studied it, so I cannot comment on it.

Quote from: SuperHater7810 on March 22, 2013, 09:32:01 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 09:24:29 AM

Quote from: SuperHater7810 on March 22, 2013, 09:22:07 AM

This thread should be locked right now.  I don't think we should entertain sceptimatic on this particular line of bullshit.

It can be locked for all I care. I wasn't the one that put it up, so what's it to me. I'm not the one crying about it, you lot are.

Where do you get off on trolling on a subject like this. The stuff about the flat earth and the moon landings where all in good fun, but now your just bieng plain disrespectful.
Just call your ISP and tell them to cut you off cos no body needs to hear your dumb shit. Then go die in a hole.

Oh I don't think i was trolling. I think I put a decent theory forward but how was I to know that a bunch of screaming little cry babies where going to wish death and what not on me, instead of having a theory themselves.
I still believe this should be in the rant section, where you can cry yourself to sleep.

Your theory would be decent if it were supported by something outside of your own thoughts.  As it stands it is a hypothesis that withers under the slightest scruntiny.  You definitely do not understand what whining is.  I will add it to the list of topics you display ignorance about. 

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 09:35:00 AM

Quote from: SuperHater7810 on March 22, 2013, 09:32:01 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 09:24:29 AM

Quote from: SuperHater7810 on March 22, 2013, 09:22:07 AM

This thread should be locked right now.  I don't think we should entertain sceptimatic on this particular line of bullshit.

It can be locked for all I care. I wasn't the one that put it up, so what's it to me. I'm not the one crying about it, you lot are.

Where do you get off on trolling on a subject like this. The stuff about the flat earth and the moon landings where all in good fun, but now your just bieng plain disrespectful.
Just call your ISP and tell them to cut you off cos no body needs to hear your dumb shit. Then go die in a hole.

Oh I don't think i was trolling. I think I put a decent theory forward but how was I to know that a bunch of screaming little cry babies where going to wish death and what not on me, instead of having a theory themselves.
I still believe this should be in the rant section, where you can cry yourself to sleep.

Your theory would be decent if it were supported by something outside of your own thoughts.  As it stands it is a hypothesis that withers under the slightest scruntiny.  You definitely do not understand what whining is.  I will add it to the list of topics you display ignorance about.

It withers under the slightest scrutiny, yet I have seen no scrutiny of it in this thread, just a pack of emotionally unstable people go into hyper mode.

Here's my take on it.
I think the buildings were rigged with explosives many weeks to a few months in hand. Just before the explosives were being placed starting from the top down, I think companies already in those buildings were basically told to ship out well in advance.

You have no evidence of this, so who cares?

I think the buildings were then stripped of all furniture, carpets, basically everything that was re-usable, then Thermite cutter charges placed in strategic places through out the building to achieve a pancake collapse, which could not happen without explosives anyway.

No evidence and the link here has a list of pancake collapses, all annotated, and some indeed did not require explosives:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_collapse

How did they achieve this without being seen or people being suspicious?
Fairly easy, by using the freight elevators, so trucks are going in, under the building and all the necessary explosives took in and all the furniture took out.

I would imagine there's many people in that area that are still asking questions today about seeing strange movements about that complex but who's going to make any sense of it all before anything has happened, when you consider it's just normal every day movements that they see anyway, at the time.

Conjecture with no evidence.

How can all of this be achieved without involving too many people?
Well, you have to segregate it all, for instance, removal companies will be employed to remove office items and strip the floor under the assumptions of either re possession or simply floor clearance for a new company or revamp, so they maybe are doing an innocent job but now, I'll bet most if not all of them are thinking, " what the hell...we cleared so many floors, I wonder if it was being rigged for demo" and another company's removal men could be thinking the same.
So basically, compartmentalisation is the key in all this. You get 5/10/20 removal companies to innocently clear the building and they just do their job.
They can put two and two together after the event but who's going to listen? do they want to speak out about it, or even, dare they speak out about it, or maybe some have and have been told to button their lips or never work again or worse. I don't know the answer to this, I'm just piecing it all together.

Your solution to keep this under wraps is to involve as many people as possible, only increasing the risk of exposure?  Not very smart.  Again, all conjecture with no evidence.

Ok, so there's the building cleared and now the charges are put in place, this time by people that do know what's about to happen, as in, they are paid to rig and blow up the buildings ready for a new complex to be built and anyone who mentions it, will face the consequences, so up to now, nobody knows what the whole plot involves other than what they are told at the time and will have to put two and two together later...but think about this.
Imagine you were a demo expert and you were given that job on the understanding that you get paid handsomely as long as you don't open your mouth, letting on about the demo to anyone, so you agree, as it's your job, the pays excellent and so what, to you , you're just downing some big skyscrapers and clearing a complex for rebuilding of up to date ones.

Conjecture once more.

Many people can be asleep but people are not stupid and can see that there is a lot wrong with this. The problem is, dis info is always put into it as well to get people arguing against each other so most people don't know whether they are batting or bowling.

These set ups might appear amateurish in their making but they are well thought out in advance and contingency plans are always in place to shut those up who are awake to what's going on, that's why you get TV programs made about conspiracy theories and the reason they do this, is to pretend to go along with the conspiracy , yet they totally twist it away from what really happened to what some people think happened and then create the debunking version to really screw you up.

To see past all that, you have to see past the manipulation of the media side steps of issues to ones which they promote, for example, the media will come out with, " conspiracy theorists may have a point in this terrorist attack being known about because they cite NORAD's inability to respond as a proof that they knew what was about to happen."

You see how that throws people off what really happened?
You see, this gives the full mindset to planes being really hijacked and NORAD let it happen, so your mind cannot comprehend the building being controlled demolition, as planes obviously did it and you know this happened because you saw those planes hit the building didn't you? On TV.

On TV.

Let me explain something to you.

Rhetoric that does not address the substance of your theory.  You are just using it as an emotional appeal.

Hollow Aluminium planes, do not melt into buildings like that, with nose, fuselage, wing tips, tail fins, in fact, everything pieces of it melting into a steel framed skyscraper as well as through floors and leaving a cartoon hole of it's shape in the building.

No evidence, sounds like something you have been spoonfed.

So there is your analysis.  Nothing you have said is substantiated and the one thing you claimed that I can actually check, that pancake collapses cannot happen without explosives, turns out to be eminently wrong.

Show me the pancake collapse of any steel framed building, "ever" in the entire world, apart from the 3 that dropped on 9/11.

Show me the pancake collapse of any steel framed building, "ever" in the entire world, apart from the 3 that dropped on 9/11.

Don't be lazy. On the link I provided there are multiple examples.

Google the phrase Steel Pasticity
I know you are not a structural engineer, and generally fail to understand most things that are even slightly technical in nature; but that should help you understand how steel frames can collapse.

Ill give you a starter tip, the steel doesnt melt

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 10:01:11 AM

Show me the pancake collapse of any steel framed building, "ever" in the entire world, apart from the 3 that dropped on 9/11.

Don't be lazy. On the link I provided there are multiple examples.

Let me try and clarify what I mean.

Steel framed buildings.

On February 12, 2005, the 28 story Windsor Tower in Madrid, Spain suffered the collapse of the upper 11 floors of the building. The tower had a reinforced concrete inner-core surrounded by a traditional webbed steel-frame outer-perimeter. Between floors 16 and 17 was a 7 foot thick, reinforced concrete transfer floor, designed to act as a bulkhead and to support the steel framework of the upper 11 stories. An office fire began on the 21st floor and after 5 hours, the concrete inner-core could no longer support the melting steel outer-framework. The upper 11 stories collapsed down to street level with remnants of the upper 3 floors collapsing down on to the transfer floor. No one was killed. The building was a composite steel-frame and steel-reinforced concrete design.[1
sicko

Google the phrase Steel Pasticity
I know you are not a structural engineer, and generally fail to understand most things that are even slightly technical in nature; but that should help you understand how steel frames can collapse.

Ill give you a starter tip, the steel doesnt melt

I'll give you a tip. The twin towers had a steel central core of 47 columns of which steel trusses were attached which spanned to the outer structure wall structure.

If a pancake collapse were to happen, the worst case would be the outer walls collapsing but the inner 47 massive steel columns would be left standing and would not collapse like a pack of cards.

you forgetting the big airplane that crashed into the building. do us a favor

A challenge to conspiracy theorist:

1) Find a steel frame building at least 40 stories high

2) Which takes up a whole city block

3) And is a "Tube in a tube" design

4) Which came off its core columns at the bottom floors (Earthquake, fire, whatever - WTC 7)

5) Which was struck by another building or airliner and had structural damage as a result.

6) And weakened by fire for over 6 hours

7) which had trusses that were bolted on with two 5/8" bolts.

And after all seven tests are met the building didn't fall down

until you find a building that matches all these criteria then you have no comparison.

The Winsdor tower in Madrid burned for about 18 hours.
The twin towers burned for not much over an hour and only in isolated areas.
The twin towers both collapse into their own basements and the Windsor tower stays strong after 18 hours and the crane on top is still standing to prove it.


#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">Windsor Tower VS World Trade Center

This fire is one of the fires Conspiracy theorist like to point to when talking about high raise office fires. This fire lasted 26 hours. But what they don't tell you is that the first collapse happened only 2 hours and 30 minutes after the fire began. But why didn't the building fall completely? It was on fire for 26 hours. The answer is very simple. The building were constructed very differently than the WTC. Reinforced concrete was used in the core and under the 17th floor

Building 7 of the complex. Collapse or controlled demolition?

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">4409 -- (Unseen Footage) Tower 7 blasted into rubble from NEW angle!

sceptic proved wrong so moves on to world trade center 7.

Quote from: Rama Set on March 22, 2013, 10:15:32 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 10:01:11 AM

Show me the pancake collapse of any steel framed building, "ever" in the entire world, apart from the 3 that dropped on 9/11.

Don't be lazy. On the link I provided there are multiple examples.

Let me try and clarify what I mean.

Steel framed buildings.

Don't condescend to me when you are not willing or capable of reading the site I linked you to:
(From the Wikipedia entry on progressive (aka pancake) collapse. The original source is "The Structure of Ronan Point and other Taylor Woodrow-Anglian Buildings", 1985, ISBN 0-85125-342-3)

"On November 1, 1966, the 7 story University of Aberdeen Zoology Department building in Aberdeen, Scotland suffered a total collapse while under construction. The collapse was attributed to poor girder welds that were weakened by metal fatigue. The metal fatigue was induced by oscillating lateral forces on the structure (primarily wind). 5 people were killed and 3 others were injured. The building was a steel-frame design and the first known example of the total progressive collapse of a steel-framed building.[2]" (emphasis my own)

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 10:27:14 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on March 22, 2013, 10:15:32 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 10:01:11 AM

Show me the pancake collapse of any steel framed building, "ever" in the entire world, apart from the 3 that dropped on 9/11.

Don't be lazy. On the link I provided there are multiple examples.

Let me try and clarify what I mean.

Steel framed buildings.

Don't condescend to me when you are not willing or capable of reading the site I linked you to:
(From the Wikipedia entry on progressive (aka pancake) collapse. The original source is "The Structure of Ronan Point and other Taylor Woodrow-Anglian Buildings", 1985, ISBN 0-85125-342-3)

"On November 1, 1966, the 7 story University of Aberdeen Zoology Department building in Aberdeen, Scotland suffered a total collapse while under construction. The collapse was attributed to poor girder welds that were weakened by metal fatigue. The metal fatigue was induced by oscillating lateral forces on the structure (primarily wind). 5 people were killed and 3 others were injured. The building was a steel-frame design and the first known example of the total progressive collapse of a steel-framed building.[2]" (emphasis my own)

Bring something stronger to the table.

lol sceptic has no rebuttal.

You asked for this:

Show me the pancake collapse of any steel framed building, "ever" in the entire world, apart from the 3 that dropped on 9/11.

 

I did exactly that. There is little else to say. I took up your challenge and firmly answered it with verifiable sources. Your theory is unsubstantiated, conjectural fabrication. Please come back when you have a leg to stand on.

You asked for this:

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 10:01:11 AM

Show me the pancake collapse of any steel framed building, "ever" in the entire world, apart from the 3 that dropped on 9/11.

 

I did exactly that. There is little else to say. I took up your challenge and firmly answered it with verifiable sources. Your theory is unsubstantiated, conjectural fabrication. Please come back when you have a leg to stand on.

Ok, I'll leave you to smugly claim I'm debunked. Good for you, now I hope this makes you feel better, because earlier on you wanted this topic, "you started" to be locked.

Tell the world about the bad welders of a 7 storey building that you debunked my thoughts with. 

awww sceptics just ignoring the 28 story building posted in the same link. good old sceptic just ignoring evidence that shows him to be wrong.

28 story Windsor Tower in Madrid

Quote from: Rama Set on March 22, 2013, 10:55:59 AM

You asked for this:

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 10:01:11 AM

Show me the pancake collapse of any steel framed building, "ever" in the entire world, apart from the 3 that dropped on 9/11.

 

I did exactly that. There is little else to say. I took up your challenge and firmly answered it with verifiable sources. Your theory is unsubstantiated, conjectural fabrication. Please come back when you have a leg to stand on.

Ok, I'll leave you to smugly claim I'm debunked. Good for you, now I hope this makes you feel better, because earlier on you wanted this topic, "you started" to be locked.

Tell the world about the bad welders of a 7 storey building that you debunked my thoughts with. 

Your excuses do not hide the fact that you challenged me to disprove you, I did, you asked for evidence I had already provided, and then as if the ignomy of the situation were not bad enough, told me that the evidence needed to refer to a steel-framed building, which it did in several places. Then, perhaps put of embarrassment for being outed as not even having read the evidence I submitted, who knows for sure, you have the gall to tell me to do better. Very good. I am not claiming you are debunked, it is written down on record for others to judge for themselves. I am going to look in to why Building 7 collapsed because I have always been curious. You can be sure that I will not assume its wrong from the outset and will substantiate any claims I make. I wish you would do the same.

3 huge steel constructed buildings all collapsing into their own basements, 2 within just under 2 hours and one later in the day, all on the same complex. What are the odds of near perfect collapses of just one, never mind 3?

What are the odds of 4 (four) planes being hijacked on the same morning by terrorists armed with craft knifes and managing to over power and disable the crew of each plane, whilst also disabling tracking on every plane and the terrorists managing to turn the planes around and navigate them into their targets, without any outside help?

Also, what are the odds of all terrorists being identified within days , even though they were supposedly using fake passports.

What are the odds of finding a fully intact passport of one of the supposed hijackers, in the street after the plane he was supposedly flying went into the tower?

What are the odds of a plane melting like butter from nose to tail, into a steel building without one piece of it falling from the supposed impact  zone, despite the fact it would have to navigate through the steel grid   of the building, plus the floor structure?

That's just a few things to ponder.

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 11:00:23 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on March 22, 2013, 10:55:59 AM

You asked for this:

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 10:01:11 AM

Show me the pancake collapse of any steel framed building, "ever" in the entire world, apart from the 3 that dropped on 9/11.

 

I did exactly that. There is little else to say. I took up your challenge and firmly answered it with verifiable sources. Your theory is unsubstantiated, conjectural fabrication. Please come back when you have a leg to stand on.

Ok, I'll leave you to smugly claim I'm debunked. Good for you, now I hope this makes you feel better, because earlier on you wanted this topic, "you started" to be locked.

Tell the world about the bad welders of a 7 storey building that you debunked my thoughts with. 

Your excuses do not hide the fact that you challenged me to disprove you, I did, you asked for evidence I had already provided, and then as if the ignomy of the situation were not bad enough, told me that the evidence needed to refer to a steel-framed building, which it did in several places. Then, perhaps put of embarrassment for being outed as not even having read the evidence I submitted, who knows for sure, you have the gall to tell me to do better. Very good. I am not claiming you are debunked, it is written down on record for others to judge for themselves. I am going to look in to why Building 7 collapsed because I have always been curious. You can be sure that I will not assume its wrong from the outset and will substantiate any claims I make. I wish you would do the same.

Well get on with it then. Next time show me a steel framed building that suffered a pancake collapse. The operative word is pancake.

What are the odds of a plane melting like butter from nose to tail, into a steel building without one piece of it falling from the supposed impact  zone, despite the fact it would have to navigate through the steel grid   of the building, plus the floor structure?

lots of pictures of aircraft debris from after the impact literd all over the streets suronding the tiwers. and melting like butter? is that a scientific discription?
http://911review.org/brad.com/wtc_plane_debris.html

Quote from: Rama Set on March 22, 2013, 11:12:30 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 11:00:23 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on March 22, 2013, 10:55:59 AM

You asked for this:

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 10:01:11 AM

Show me the pancake collapse of any steel framed building, "ever" in the entire world, apart from the 3 that dropped on 9/11.

 

I did exactly that. There is little else to say. I took up your challenge and firmly answered it with verifiable sources. Your theory is unsubstantiated, conjectural fabrication. Please come back when you have a leg to stand on.

Ok, I'll leave you to smugly claim I'm debunked. Good for you, now I hope this makes you feel better, because earlier on you wanted this topic, "you started" to be locked.

Tell the world about the bad welders of a 7 storey building that you debunked my thoughts with. 

Your excuses do not hide the fact that you challenged me to disprove you, I did, you asked for evidence I had already provided, and then as if the ignomy of the situation were not bad enough, told me that the evidence needed to refer to a steel-framed building, which it did in several places. Then, perhaps put of embarrassment for being outed as not even having read the evidence I submitted, who knows for sure, you have the gall to tell me to do better. Very good. I am not claiming you are debunked, it is written down on record for others to judge for themselves. I am going to look in to why Building 7 collapsed because I have always been curious. You can be sure that I will not assume its wrong from the outset and will substantiate any claims I make. I wish you would do the same.

Well get on with it then. Next time show me a steel framed building that suffered a pancake collapse. The operative word is pancake.

You are just embarrassing yourself. Pancake collapse is a colloquialism for a progressive collapse.

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 11:27:35 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on March 22, 2013, 11:12:30 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 11:00:23 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on March 22, 2013, 10:55:59 AM

You asked for this:

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 10:01:11 AM

Show me the pancake collapse of any steel framed building, "ever" in the entire world, apart from the 3 that dropped on 9/11.

 

I did exactly that. There is little else to say. I took up your challenge and firmly answered it with verifiable sources. Your theory is unsubstantiated, conjectural fabrication. Please come back when you have a leg to stand on.

Ok, I'll leave you to smugly claim I'm debunked. Good for you, now I hope this makes you feel better, because earlier on you wanted this topic, "you started" to be locked.

Tell the world about the bad welders of a 7 storey building that you debunked my thoughts with. 

Your excuses do not hide the fact that you challenged me to disprove you, I did, you asked for evidence I had already provided, and then as if the ignomy of the situation were not bad enough, told me that the evidence needed to refer to a steel-framed building, which it did in several places. Then, perhaps put of embarrassment for being outed as not even having read the evidence I submitted, who knows for sure, you have the gall to tell me to do better. Very good. I am not claiming you are debunked, it is written down on record for others to judge for themselves. I am going to look in to why Building 7 collapsed because I have always been curious. You can be sure that I will not assume its wrong from the outset and will substantiate any claims I make. I wish you would do the same.

Well get on with it then. Next time show me a steel framed building that suffered a pancake collapse. The operative word is pancake.

You are just embarrassing yourself. Pancake collapse is a colloquialism for a progressive collapse.

Then show me this progressive top to bottom collapse of a steel framed building. Just show me one, apart from the 3 on 9/11.

Quote from: Rama Set on March 22, 2013, 11:37:33 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 11:27:35 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on March 22, 2013, 11:12:30 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 11:00:23 AM

Quote from: Rama Set on March 22, 2013, 10:55:59 AM

You asked for this:

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 22, 2013, 10:01:11 AM

Show me the pancake collapse of any steel framed building, "ever" in the entire world, apart from the 3 that dropped on 9/11.

 

I did exactly that. There is little else to say. I took up your challenge and firmly answered it with verifiable sources. Your theory is unsubstantiated, conjectural fabrication. Please come back when you have a leg to stand on.

Ok, I'll leave you to smugly claim I'm debunked. Good for you, now I hope this makes you feel better, because earlier on you wanted this topic, "you started" to be locked.

Tell the world about the bad welders of a 7 storey building that you debunked my thoughts with. 

Your excuses do not hide the fact that you challenged me to disprove you, I did, you asked for evidence I had already provided, and then as if the ignomy of the situation were not bad enough, told me that the evidence needed to refer to a steel-framed building, which it did in several places. Then, perhaps put of embarrassment for being outed as not even having read the evidence I submitted, who knows for sure, you have the gall to tell me to do better. Very good. I am not claiming you are debunked, it is written down on record for others to judge for themselves. I am going to look in to why Building 7 collapsed because I have always been curious. You can be sure that I will not assume its wrong from the outset and will substantiate any claims I make. I wish you would do the same.

Well get on with it then. Next time show me a steel framed building that suffered a pancake collapse. The operative word is pancake.

You are just embarrassing yourself. Pancake collapse is a colloquialism for a progressive collapse.

Then show me this progressive top to bottom collapse of a steel framed building. Just show me one, apart from the 3 on 9/11.

So desperate you have to move the goal posts. From the same page!

"On December 19, 1985, the 22 story[3] commercial office building at 1000 Wilshire Blvd, Los Angeles, CA 90017, currently known as the Wedbush Building,[4] experienced a partial collapse of the structure. Construction crews were offloading recently arrived steel girders from a flatbed truck on to the deck of the newly completed 5th floor via crane when a girder broke loose from the crane and fell down on to the current stockpile below, which was already loaded to twice the maximum designed load capacity of the floor. This initiated a progressive collapse of the overloaded floor, causing the floor section and girders to crash through the 4th, 3rd, 2nd, and 1st floors, finally coming to rest in the parking garage. 3 people were killed. The building was a steel-frame design.[5]"