FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your model

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qwe

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FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your model
« on: July 04, 2006, 02:03:51 PM »
Quote
The force of gravity varies from about 9.780 m/s² at the equator to ca. 9.832 m/s² at the poles. It's influenced, as you've said, by the cetrifugal force from its rotation around the sun but also by: the fact that the earth is not a perfect sphere, variations in the earth's density, altitude, the earth's own rotation (acts opposite of the gravitational force), the graviational pull from the moon and the sun etc

(from another forum, that has nothing to do with FE, in a physics thread)

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Erasmus

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FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your model
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2006, 02:25:11 PM »
Well I don't see why FE theory doesn't get to keep gravitational influence from the sun/moon/stars/dome/etc.  I think that's the usual response.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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RenaissanceMan

FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your model
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2006, 02:46:32 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Well I don't see why FE theory doesn't get to keep gravitational influence from the sun/moon/stars/dome/etc.  I think that's the usual response.


When you prove that with experimentation, I will be REALLY impressed.

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James

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Re: FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your mod
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2006, 03:44:37 PM »
Quote from: "qwe"
Quote
The force of gravity varies from about 9.780 m/s² at the equator to ca. 9.832 m/s² at the poles. It's influenced, as you've said, by the cetrifugal force from its rotation around the sun but also by: the fact that the earth is not a perfect sphere, variations in the earth's density, altitude, the earth's own rotation (acts opposite of the gravitational force), the graviational pull from the moon and the sun etc

(from another forum, that has nothing to do with FE, in a physics thread)


It's a difference of 0.5 m/s squared. This could easily be down to mismeasurement. (I'd never heard or assumed that gravity was different on different parts of the Earth. Think about it - do things ACTUALLY get heavier when you take them to Africa, Mexico or the Middle East or wherever? Of course not).
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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qwe

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Re: FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your mod
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2006, 04:46:28 PM »
Quote from: "Dogplatter"
It's a difference of 0.5 m/s squared. This could easily be down to mismeasurement. (I'd never heard or assumed that gravity was different on different parts of the Earth. Think about it - do things ACTUALLY get heavier when you take them to Africa, Mexico or the Middle East or wherever? Of course not).

you wouldn't feel a difference of 0.5 m/s/s

as far as mismeasurement, if instruments consistently record these changes, and the instruments are precise, how could it be due to mismeasurement...?

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James

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Re: FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your mod
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2006, 05:30:45 PM »
Quote from: "qwe"

you wouldn't feel a difference of 0.5 m/s/s


Fair point.

Quote from: "qwe"

as far as mismeasurement, if instruments consistently record these changes, and the instruments are precise, how could it be due to mismeasurement...?


Do they, though? Can you cite some sources for this? (several different independant records of measuring this would be best)
"For your own sake, as well as for that of our beloved country, be bold and firm against error and evil of every kind." - David Wardlaw Scott, Terra Firma 1901

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DrQuak

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FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your model
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2006, 06:14:00 PM »
Mate we can measure diffences a hell of a lot more exact than 0.05 m/s/s


especially in something as - well - common as gravity.


i can't be bothered in trying to find something that shows us measuring weight that accuratley but let me find you some exact measurements that make 0.05 look damned easy....


First of all Gravitational waves

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEO_600

"They are designed to detect relative changes in distance of the order of 10^21, about the size of a single atom compared to the distance from the Sun to the Earth"


there is also the definition of the Kilogram (Which has an interesting artical about THE kilogram) but look down to the electron mass

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram

which is rated to an uncertainty of only +/- 0.000017% compared to the

however for this effect to be unreliable  your asking for an uncertainty of 0.511%


and here is an article that talks about this effect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_%28Earth%29


yes in your high school lab your unlikely to get better than 10% uncertainty, and as an undergraduate your unlikely to get better then 5%, but for pure research we can do a hell of a lot better than that.

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DrQuak

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FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your model
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2006, 06:15:29 PM »
oh and if you want actual measurements of this effect go find them yourself. i don't feel like trawling through 20 odd years of scientific papers to find you raw numbers.

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RenaissanceMan

Re: FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your mod
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2006, 06:15:29 PM »
Quote from: "Dogplatter"
Quote from: "qwe"

you wouldn't feel a difference of 0.5 m/s/s


Fair point.

Quote from: "qwe"

as far as mismeasurement, if instruments consistently record these changes, and the instruments are precise, how could it be due to mismeasurement...?


Do they, though? Can you cite some sources for this? (several different independant records of measuring this would be best)



To the science lab!

Anybody can do science. You only need equipment accurate enough to measure the expected results, an experiment to preform, and the mathematical knowledge to run the numbers.

In my kitchen I have a digital scale, It can do at least a kilogram at a resolution of a couple of grams.

I need a test mass. This object weighs 821 grams... it will do (I select a bottle of cleaning solution as a test weight.) Assumption! the 821 gram weight was gotten at the pole. Obviously, I got it where I live... so this is just to see if this scale can be accurate enough.

Now,   weight = mass x acceleration

I have 2 accelerations, so I'll have 2 weights, but the same object so it has the same mass (mass is independant of weight or acceleration)
Code: [Select]

So:    weight1 = mass * acceleration1
         weight2 = mass * acceleration2

acceleration1 is at the pole:       9.832 m/ss
acceleration2 is at the equator:  9.780 m/ss

Combining the equasions, I get:

                        weight1
     weight2 =  -------------      * acceleration2
                       acceleration1

Notice how mass in the equasion for weight2 was replaced with the EQUILAVENT form of equasion 1? mass is mass! only the WEIGHT changes with gravity (acceleration)

Replacing the holders with my values I get:
Code: [Select]

                         821g
     weight2 =  -------------      * 9.780 m/ss
                       9.832 m/ss

gives : 815 grams for the same sample at the equator.

Huh! That's a considerable difference within the capability of the equipment I have on hand. Of course, there are other factors... is this scale temperature and humidity resistant? Did I do the math right? I would have to recheck my findings and have someone else verify the data as well.

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RenaissanceMan

FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your model
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2006, 06:17:35 PM »
The formulas didn't format... slide the values above and below to the line...

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Erasmus

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FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your model
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2006, 06:20:50 PM »
Quote from: "RenaissanceMan"
The formulas didn't format... slide the values above and below to the line...


You can't; spaces are automatically removed.  I recommend putting such things in "code" tags.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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RenaissanceMan

FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your model
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2006, 06:22:12 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Quote from: "RenaissanceMan"
The formulas didn't format... slide the values above and below to the line...


You can't; spaces are automatically removed.  I recommend putting such things in "code" tags.


Explain, please.

I figured it out a little... that's better.

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DrQuak

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FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your model
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2006, 06:33:42 PM »
hmm such abuse of the word gramms....

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Erasmus

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FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your model
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2006, 06:33:51 PM »
Quote from: "RenaissanceMan"
Explain, please.


If you have a line of text "         foo" in a post, the initial "         " is removed.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?

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qwe

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FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your model
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2006, 01:38:57 PM »
Quote from: "Erasmus"
Well I don't see why FE theory doesn't get to keep gravitational influence from the sun/moon/stars/dome/etc.  I think that's the usual response.


i thought they were spotlights though?  or are they gravity machines as well?

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qwe

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FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your model
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2006, 01:40:01 PM »
Quote from: "RenaissanceMan"

Explain, please.

I figured it out a little... that's better.


Code: [Select]
like this         spaces      use (code) (/code) tags    
format       yay

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Erasmus

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FE'ers, please fit this fact about gravity into your model
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2006, 01:41:32 PM »
Quote from: "qwe"
i thought they were spotlights though?  or are they gravity machines as well?


They're not spotlights in the physical sense of metal tubes, several inches in diameter, with powerful light bulbs inside.

They're spotlights in the functional sense of not illumimating a spherically-symmetric region of space.
Why did the chicken cross the Möbius strip?