Short Flight Remedies

I thought this subject deserves its own topic, so as to untangle the messy web of conspiracy theories and hysteria fuelled rants.

Please post any useful ideas, theories or perspectives below. I believe we have covered some interesting, if not necessarily conclusive ground so far.

I will start by reposting my original text I offered up in the latest Qantas discussion.

This Flat-Earther seems to accept flights between Sydney and Santiago.

FLAT EARTH - Nonstop Southern flights (Sydney to Santiago) EXPLAINED Jeremiah Daniel

Jeremiah Daniel sees no need to suggest that QANTAS might have murdered a million or so people.

I doubt very much there is a mass murder agenda.

I do however suspect not only the shape of our world to be debatable, but thereof the shape of its continents.

Such as Antarctica.

I am not an orthodox FlatEarther, my views are somewhat difficult to relate, however I find it helpful to suggest that:

• The shape of Antarctica is likewise miscalculated, or represented, in that the route debated may not actually require the plane to take such a greatly circular path, since it may pass over an outcrop of ice not shown on any publicly available maps.
• In addition, as rabinoz posted, jetstreams may be harnessed.
• In which case, perhaps there are other miscellaneous outcrops on the opposite side, which can be flown past on return, so as to present the illusion of Antarctica, whilst continuing to take advantage of the jetstreams.
• Perhaps massive chunks of Antarctica have been recently breaking off due to a deliberate government operation of creating outcrops.
• Finally, indeed as previously suggested, perhaps a modified plane is employed.

Nevertheless, the mysteries of the universe are bountiful, no doubt.

Please continue...

Allright so how about this?

Quote from: rabinoz on January 03, 2019, 03:15:27 PM

Quote from: Themightykabool on January 03, 2019, 02:00:52 PM

You ever see a sitcom where one guy tells a white lie, and then it snowballs and snow balls and becomes this huge stupid mess?

     the flight distance from Sydney, Australia to Johannesburg, South Africa of about 11,060 km (QANTAS),
     the flight distance from Perth, Australia to Johannesburg, South Africa is of about 8,325 km (SA Airlines) and

Not only are they apparently murdering these people, they are also hiring a metal band to do it. Found this:
https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/saying-goodbye-to-iron-maidens-ed-force-one/

Quote

Two more long flights brought Ed Force One to and from South Africa. Once back in Europe, Ed Force One’s flights averaged under under an hour, with the last flight from Oslo to Gothenburg taking just 36 minutes.

That's not a commercial airline. That's a private plane. And a unique livery on it. Spotters love it. Bet you could find pictures for it both leaving Australia and arriving in Africa at exactly the times you'd expect from Flight Radar. There's a lot of news coverage as well.

News coverage (look at the dates and the times):

(regarding) departure from Perth: http://www.aviationwa.org.au/2016/05/07/iron-maidens-ed-force-one-boeing-747-400-to-visit-perth/ - Comment says departure delayed until 2:30PM on May 15
Arrival in SA: https://www.channel24.co.za/Music/News/exclusive-pics-iron-maiden-arrives-in-cape-town-20160516 - News posted on 07:17 on May 16.

Taking in account the time difference between Perth and Cape Town, the news message of the arrival was posted a little less than 11 hours after the departure in Perth.

Okay, with the standard FE map, the distance between Sydney and Santiago (sticking to the same latitude, so underestimating the actual path the plane would take) is roughly 33600 km.
The flight in the video is claimed to have taken 11.5 hours.
This gives a speed of roughly 3000 km/hr.
With the 200 km/hr jet-stream (using the high number they provided), this reduces the planes airspeed to 2800 km/hr, well above the typical cruising speed of 900-1000 km/hr for large jets.

So no, the jet-streams don't help.

Instead of this video being a remedy for the short duration of the flights, it appears to be an attack on the RE and these flights on a RE where he seems to indicate they should be shorter.
Yes, the straight line distance between these 2 cities is roughly 11340 km.
Yes, doing the math this means the plane is travelling at roughly 1000 km/hr. (986 to be more precise).
Yes, the cruising "land" speed of a large jet in a 200 km/hr jetstream should be roughly 1100 km/hr to 1200 km/hr, which is significantly faster than the average speed of the flight.

What the video maker seems to be ignoring is:

• planes don't fly direct routes as the runways are typically never aligned correctly, and they often need to wait for landing and they will fly off the direct route to go along jetstreams and to avoid bad weather
• planes don't start at their cruise speed.
• The jet-streams aren't always at the 200 km/hr (in some places it was only 100 km/hr or less

The first 2 factors mean that from a simple calculation of direct distance and time, you will have a lower average speed than the cruise speed of the aircraft.

So the maker of the video seems to be objecting to a fairly small deviation of no more than a less than 200 km/hr which can easily be explained by the above, while ignoring the much greater deviation of roughly 1800 km/hr that the FE requires.

You might try arguing that they take a more direct route, but that takes them over lots of land that is well know, specifically regions of North America. Now the people on the planes might not be geniuses, but I'm fairly sure they can tell the difference between Antarctica and North America.
This also involves going in the opposite direction to what the planes are observed to do. It also means they don't get the jetstreams.

But just looking at such a route, assuming they went direct, that is roughly 27 000 km, requiring them to fly at roughly 2400 km/hr, well above the plane's max speed.
So that isn't a solution either.

And all this has been pointed out already by plenty of people in the youtube comments.

Another intreting thing is. The guy in the video refers to the jetstreams.
He shows a simulation on which we can see their rotation direction.

The  direction of rotation is influenced by the coriolis force which can only exist if earth would rotate... what it does!

Another interesting thing is. The guy in the video refers to the jetstreams.
He shows a simulation on which we can see their rotation direction.

The direction of rotation is influenced by the Coriolis force which can only exist if earth would rotate... what it does!

Not only that, but planes fly in both directions on the Sydney/Santiago, Sydney/Johannesburg (both QANTAS) and Perth/Johannesburg routes (SA Airlines).

Quote from: mimbelusmimbeltonia on March 14, 2019, 10:49:06 AM

Another interesting thing is. The guy in the video refers to the jetstreams.
He shows a simulation on which we can see their rotation direction.

The direction of rotation is influenced by the Coriolis force which can only exist if earth would rotate... what it does!

Not only that, but planes fly in both directions on the Sydney/Santiago, Sydney/Johannesburg (both QANTAS) and Perth/Johannesburg routes (SA Airlines).

Nope! Those routes are absent. Nobody have flown from Sydney to Santiago. If you have claim they do, so prove it, other than fake tickets and airline claims; but a real time video. You can not. So stop to spread your baseless BS over to forum.

Nope! Those routes are absent. Nobody have flown from Sydney to Santiago.

You have been provided with mountains of evidence that these flights exist, including videos of the flights.
If you wish to claim they are fake and that these airlines are lying, you need to prove it.

Nope! Those routes are absent. Nobody have flown from Sydney to Santiago. If you have claim they do, so prove it, other than fake tickets and airline claims; but a real time video. You can not. So stop to spread your baseless BS over to forum.

Incorrect! You have never proven that and you cannot prove that because it is quite untrue.

You are the one making the claim that "Nobody have flown from Sydney to Santiago" so the onus is on you to prove your case.

If YOU cannot prove your case save please stop posting this totally incorrect information about QANTAS and Australia.
By the way, there are also genuine flights between Johannesburg and Perth (and NOT by QANTAS) and between Johannesburg and Sydney (flown by QANTAS).

Quote from: wise on June 09, 2019, 06:19:08 AM

Nope! Those routes are absent. Nobody have flown from Sydney to Santiago.

You have been provided with mountains of evidence that these flights exist, including videos of the flights.
If you wish to claim they are fake and that these airlines are lying, you need to prove it.

Sorry, I have not seen an evidence these flights are exist without some claims written in some papers. Where are passengers with real life videos? Absent. You have not prove anything mister.

Quote from: wise on June 09, 2019, 06:19:08 AM

Nope! Those routes are absent. Nobody have flown from Sydney to Santiago. If you have claim they do, so prove it, other than fake tickets and airline claims; but a real time video. You can not. So stop to spread your baseless BS over to forum.

Incorrect! You have never proven that and you cannot prove that because it is quite untrue.

Same BS, same answer. Read above. Stop to copy paste the Jackblack.

Quote from: JackBlack on June 09, 2019, 02:44:55 PM

Quote from: wise on June 09, 2019, 06:19:08 AM

Nope! Those routes are absent. Nobody have flown from Sydney to Santiago.

You have been provided with mountains of evidence that these flights exist, including videos of the flights.
If you wish to claim they are fake and that these airlines are lying, you need to prove it.

Sorry, I have not seen an evidence these flights are exist without some claims written in some papers. Where are passengers with real life videos? Absent. You have not prove anything mister.

Quote from: rabinoz on June 09, 2019, 03:16:50 PM

Quote from: wise on June 09, 2019, 06:19:08 AM

Nope! Those routes are absent. Nobody have flown from Sydney to Santiago. If you have claim they do, so prove it, other than fake tickets and airline claims; but a real time video. You can not. So stop to spread your baseless BS over to forum.

Incorrect! You have never proven that and you cannot prove that because it is quite untrue.

Same BS, same answer. Read above. Stop to copy paste the Jackblack.

If you do not understand then fine, your problem.

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 01:02:55 AM

Quote from: JackBlack on June 09, 2019, 02:44:55 PM

Quote from: wise on June 09, 2019, 06:19:08 AM

Nope! Those routes are absent. Nobody have flown from Sydney to Santiago.

You have been provided with mountains of evidence that these flights exist, including videos of the flights.
If you wish to claim they are fake and that these airlines are lying, you need to prove it.

Sorry, I have not seen an evidence these flights are exist without some claims written in some papers. Where are passengers with real life videos? Absent. You have not prove anything mister.

Quote from: rabinoz on June 09, 2019, 03:16:50 PM

Quote from: wise on June 09, 2019, 06:19:08 AM

Nope! Those routes are absent. Nobody have flown from Sydney to Santiago. If you have claim they do, so prove it, other than fake tickets and airline claims; but a real time video. You can not. So stop to spread your baseless BS over to forum.

Incorrect! You have never proven that and you cannot prove that because it is quite untrue.

Same BS, same answer. Read above. Stop to copy paste the Jackblack.

If you do not understand then fine, your problem.

No, it  is their problem their contradicting. If you have a problem so I can solve it too, let me know it.

Sorry, I have not seen an evidence these flights

You ignoring the evidence doesn't mean it hasn't been provided.
Now again, if you want to assert these flights are fake, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that.

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 01:02:55 AM

Sorry, I have not seen an evidence these flights

You ignoring the evidence doesn't mean it hasn't been provided.
Now again, if you want to assert these flights are fake, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that.

Again and again, you have to "prove" their existance first. Do not make word salat by using sometimes evidence instead of proof. They are clearly different things. Similar but not same. You are doing it because you are cornered and have no chance but making word salat. Have fun with your meal, I'll not take it. Prove its existance first.

Again and again, you have to "prove" their existance first

We have proven their existence. As such the burden is on you to prove they are fake.

Quote from: wise on June 10, 2019, 03:35:26 AM

Again and again, you have to "prove" their existance first

We have proven their existence. As such the burden is on you to prove they are fake.

Nope. You did not have proved anything. Saying "we have proven them" does not mean you have proved them but you are a liar.