Doppler shift in satilite comunications

so in FE we are told that satellite communication between earth and satellites is in fact actually from ground based sources or the laughable stratillite theory (lol) but what this does not take into account is the everyday observation by ground stations amateur and professional alike of a pronounced Doppler shift that matches the relative speed between the ground station and the satellite passing over head. these shifts need to be taken into account to receive the signal correctly. remember that any amateur ham radio operator can listen in on unencrypted signals between a satellite and its operator including that off the ISS.

below are links to two websites describing the problem in more detail and ways in which amateur radio enthusiasts can over come them.

http://vkradio.com/doppler.html
http://www.argospress.com/Resources/satellite/doppleffect.htm



so if satellites are all fake and these signals are originating from ground stations or even Stratillites (lol) then what is causing the Doppler shift?

Simply rebounds off of the , what's known as the Ionosphere.

no sceptic that is not what Doppler shift is. go read about Doppler shift then come back.

no sceptic. thats just changing the direction of the signal by rebounding it of the ionosphere. its completely different.

doppler shift is a shift in the frequency of a signal as it moves towards and then away from you. until you go learn what it is please stop posting on hear. we are not going to spend 20 pages explaining a concept you don't have the capability of understanding

no sceptic. thats just changing the direction of the signal by rebounding it of the ionosphere. its completely different.

doppler shift is a shift in the frequency of a signal as it moves towards and then away from you. until you go learn what it is please stop posting on hear. we are not going to spend 20 pages explaining a concept you don't have the capability of understanding

Read your first post. Your beef is with people not believing in satellites so you are using this doppler effect to somehow prove they are there. I've just shown you what the satellites really are.

Read your first post. Your beef is with people not believing in satellites so you are using this doppler effect to somehow prove they are there. I've just shown you what the satellites really are.

And how does your picture account for the doppler shift of the radio signals?

He already explained to you that the Doppler effect is apparent in the signal. Then, he said that your theory would not explain this. (This is from the OP FYI which you told him to re-read.)

Why don't you explain how your theory would produce the Doppler effect?

Quote

Read your first post. Your beef is with people not believing in satellites so you are using this doppler effect to somehow prove they are there. I've just shown you what the satellites really are.

And how does your picture account for the doppler shift of the radio signals?

Because your communication isn't coming from satellites passing over head like you all think.
Your communication "supposed" satellites are geo satellites, so they are fixed, not moving, which means your signals are supposedly bounced off of them, not off satellites whizzing by, so your doppler shift is none sense.

Quote from: spaceman spiff on March 03, 2013, 11:06:29 AM

Quote

Read your first post. Your beef is with people not believing in satellites so you are using this doppler effect to somehow prove they are there. I've just shown you what the satellites really are.

And how does your picture account for the doppler shift of the radio signals?

Because your communication isn't coming from satellites passing over head like you all think.
Your communication "supposed" satellites are geo satellites, so they are fixed, not moving, which means your signals are supposedly bounced off of them, not off satellites whizzing by, so your doppler shift is none sense.

Not all satellites are in geostationary orbit. The problem still stands. You could do the experiment to find out too with a HAM radio but we all know you won't.

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 03, 2013, 11:14:20 AM

Quote from: spaceman spiff on March 03, 2013, 11:06:29 AM

Quote

Read your first post. Your beef is with people not believing in satellites so you are using this doppler effect to somehow prove they are there. I've just shown you what the satellites really are.

And how does your picture account for the doppler shift of the radio signals?

Because your communication isn't coming from satellites passing over head like you all think.
Your communication "supposed" satellites are geo satellites, so they are fixed, not moving, which means your signals are supposedly bounced off of them, not off satellites whizzing by, so your doppler shift is none sense.

Not all satellites are in geostationary orbit. The problem still stands. You could do the experiment to find out too with a HAM radio but we all know you won't.

There are no satellites in any orbit but that's by the by, let's pretend there is.

Your doppler effect is going by satellites movement in orbit and being able to read the frequencies as they get further away of closer, whatever.
For that, you have to be looking at those that whizz around the planet in low earth orbit and you think you will pick up waves from this and work out it's the doppler effect lol

It's like trying to pick up a whizzing car in space sounding it's horn and hearing it get louder of fainter before it approaches.
It's crap and you know it and so does Thaggy.

Quote from: Bollybill on March 03, 2013, 11:18:59 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 03, 2013, 11:14:20 AM

Quote from: spaceman spiff on March 03, 2013, 11:06:29 AM

Quote

Read your first post. Your beef is with people not believing in satellites so you are using this doppler effect to somehow prove they are there. I've just shown you what the satellites really are.

And how does your picture account for the doppler shift of the radio signals?

Because your communication isn't coming from satellites passing over head like you all think.
Your communication "supposed" satellites are geo satellites, so they are fixed, not moving, which means your signals are supposedly bounced off of them, not off satellites whizzing by, so your doppler shift is none sense.

Not all satellites are in geostationary orbit. The problem still stands. You could do the experiment to find out too with a HAM radio but we all know you won't.

There are no satellites in any orbit but that's by the by, let's pretend there is.

Your doppler effect is going by satellites movement in orbit and being able to read the frequencies as they get further away of closer, whatever.
For that, you have to be looking at those that whizz around the planet in low earth orbit and you think you will pick up waves from this and work out it's the doppler effect lol

It's like trying to pick up a whizzing car in space sounding it's horn and hearing it get louder of fainter before it approaches.
It's crap and you know it and so does Thaggy.

No, this effect is in the signals whether you believe in satellites or not. The question is if you can explain it.

There's nothing to explain Bill.

Quote from: Bollybill on March 03, 2013, 11:18:59 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 03, 2013, 11:14:20 AM

Quote from: spaceman spiff on March 03, 2013, 11:06:29 AM

Quote

Read your first post. Your beef is with people not believing in satellites so you are using this doppler effect to somehow prove they are there. I've just shown you what the satellites really are.

And how does your picture account for the doppler shift of the radio signals?

Because your communication isn't coming from satellites passing over head like you all think.
Your communication "supposed" satellites are geo satellites, so they are fixed, not moving, which means your signals are supposedly bounced off of them, not off satellites whizzing by, so your doppler shift is none sense.

Not all satellites are in geostationary orbit. The problem still stands. You could do the experiment to find out too with a HAM radio but we all know you won't.

There are no satellites in any orbit but that's by the by, let's pretend there is.

Your doppler effect is going by satellites movement in orbit and being able to read the frequencies as they get further away of closer, whatever.
For that, you have to be looking at those that whizz around the planet in low earth orbit and you think you will pick up waves from this and work out it's the doppler effect lol

It's like trying to pick up a whizzing car in space sounding it's horn and hearing it get louder of fainter before it approaches.
It's crap and you know it and so does Thaggy.

Your analogy anout the car makes no sense. And what is so hard about spotting a satellite in orbit?

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 03, 2013, 11:25:15 AM

Quote from: Bollybill on March 03, 2013, 11:18:59 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 03, 2013, 11:14:20 AM

Quote from: spaceman spiff on March 03, 2013, 11:06:29 AM

Quote

Read your first post. Your beef is with people not believing in satellites so you are using this doppler effect to somehow prove they are there. I've just shown you what the satellites really are.

And how does your picture account for the doppler shift of the radio signals?

Because your communication isn't coming from satellites passing over head like you all think.
Your communication "supposed" satellites are geo satellites, so they are fixed, not moving, which means your signals are supposedly bounced off of them, not off satellites whizzing by, so your doppler shift is none sense.

Not all satellites are in geostationary orbit. The problem still stands. You could do the experiment to find out too with a HAM radio but we all know you won't.

There are no satellites in any orbit but that's by the by, let's pretend there is.

Your doppler effect is going by satellites movement in orbit and being able to read the frequencies as they get further away of closer, whatever.
For that, you have to be looking at those that whizz around the planet in low earth orbit and you think you will pick up waves from this and work out it's the doppler effect lol

It's like trying to pick up a whizzing car in space sounding it's horn and hearing it get louder of fainter before it approaches.
It's crap and you know it and so does Thaggy.

Your analogy anout the car makes no sense. And what is so hard about spotting a satellite in orbit?

Well then explain the doppler effect in kiddified terms and to what it equates to communication, in that you believe it somehow negates a flat earth.

If I'm on the wrong lines, explain it as simple as you can.

their is no debate about Doppler shifts existence in transitions. its their its fact its observable by anyone with a ham radio kit. im not asking about its existence im asking about how it is produced by a stationary transmitter in a FE model.

their is no debate about Doppler shifts existence in transitions. its their its fact its observable by anyone with a ham radio kit. im not asking about its existence im asking about how it is produced by a stationary transmitter in a FE model.

Do you have a ham radio kit that you can directly prove what you are saying?
I mean, what happens? Do they point their aerials at a moving satellite or something?
What do they do, in simple terms that proves something?

Quote from: Pythagoras on March 03, 2013, 02:15:28 PM

their is no debate about Doppler shifts existence in transitions. its their its fact its observable by anyone with a ham radio kit. im not asking about its existence im asking about how it is produced by a stationary transmitter in a FE model.

Do you have a ham radio kit that you can directly prove what you are saying?
I mean, what happens? Do they point their aerials at a moving satellite or something?
What do they do, in simple terms that proves something?

you actually have no idea what we are on about do you? and this is no joke. i mean you literally actually have no idea you are not even pretending this time.

please do some research then come back like i said im not spending 20 pages explaining a irrefutable concept to you. im trying my hardest not to be rude hear but you actually have no knowledge about this subject.

The Doppler effect is actually really simple. Think about the waves on the ocean, and for simplicity's sake all of the waves are perfectly the same exactly like you know sound waves or something are. Since you are just floating and not moving, the waves hit you, say 1 every 10 seconds. If you swim towards the waves though, they hit you quicker, say 1 every 5 seconds. If you swim with the waves, they hit you less often (but they hit you from behind, you don't swim into them), at maybe 1 every 20 seconds.
That's sort of how the Doppler effect works.

Quote from: Pythagoras on March 03, 2013, 02:15:28 PM

their is no debate about Doppler shifts existence in transitions. its their its fact its observable by anyone with a ham radio kit. im not asking about its existence im asking about how it is produced by a stationary transmitter in a FE model.

Do you have a ham radio kit that you can directly prove what you are saying?
I mean, what happens? Do they point their aerials at a moving satellite or something?
What do they do, in simple terms that proves something?

Oh. My. GOD. skepti, there are THOUSANDS of amatuers who observe this everyday!!! That is not the point of the thread. We know it's there, but we are looking for an explanation.     
Shut up until you read about it, please.

Quote from: Rama Set on March 03, 2013, 02:09:44 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 03, 2013, 11:25:15 AM

Quote from: Bollybill on March 03, 2013, 11:18:59 AM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 03, 2013, 11:14:20 AM

Quote from: spaceman spiff on March 03, 2013, 11:06:29 AM

Quote

Read your first post. Your beef is with people not believing in satellites so you are using this doppler effect to somehow prove they are there. I've just shown you what the satellites really are.

And how does your picture account for the doppler shift of the radio signals?

Because your communication isn't coming from satellites passing over head like you all think.
Your communication "supposed" satellites are geo satellites, so they are fixed, not moving, which means your signals are supposedly bounced off of them, not off satellites whizzing by, so your doppler shift is none sense.

Not all satellites are in geostationary orbit. The problem still stands. You could do the experiment to find out too with a HAM radio but we all know you won't.

There are no satellites in any orbit but that's by the by, let's pretend there is.

Your doppler effect is going by satellites movement in orbit and being able to read the frequencies as they get further away of closer, whatever.
For that, you have to be looking at those that whizz around the planet in low earth orbit and you think you will pick up waves from this and work out it's the doppler effect lol

It's like trying to pick up a whizzing car in space sounding it's horn and hearing it get louder of fainter before it approaches.
It's crap and you know it and so does Thaggy.

Your analogy anout the car makes no sense. And what is so hard about spotting a satellite in orbit?

Well then explain the doppler effect in kiddified terms and to what it equates to communication, in that you believe it somehow negates a flat earth.

If I'm on the wrong lines, explain it as simple as you can.

You resort to that sort of intellectual laziness too often. I thought you were trying to learn something. You should do that. Show some initiative.

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 03, 2013, 02:20:52 PM

Quote from: Pythagoras on March 03, 2013, 02:15:28 PM

their is no debate about Doppler shifts existence in transitions. its their its fact its observable by anyone with a ham radio kit. im not asking about its existence im asking about how it is produced by a stationary transmitter in a FE model.

Do you have a ham radio kit that you can directly prove what you are saying?
I mean, what happens? Do they point their aerials at a moving satellite or something?
What do they do, in simple terms that proves something?

Oh. My. GOD. skepti, there are THOUSANDS of amatuers who observe this everyday!!! That is not the point of the thread. We know it's there, but we are looking for an explanation.     
Shut up until you read about it, please.

650,000 in the US alone

The Doppler effect is actually really simple. Think about the waves on the ocean, and for simplicity's sake all of the waves are perfectly the same exactly like you know sound waves or something are. Since you are just floating and not moving, the waves hit you, say 1 every 10 seconds. If you swim towards the waves though, they hit you quicker, say 1 every 5 seconds. If you swim with the waves, they hit you less often (but they hit you from behind, you don't swim into them), at maybe 1 every 20 seconds.
That's sort of how the Doppler effect works.

Like I explained with my car analogy.
You see a car from a distance with it's horn blowing but you cannot hear it, yet as the car comes closer, the sound wave travels , obviously faster than the car, so you hear the sound getting louder and louder until the car is on you, where it is at it's loudest and once it passes, you start to hear it fainter and fainter. correct?

Quote from: Bollybill on March 03, 2013, 02:32:40 PM

The Doppler effect is actually really simple. Think about the waves on the ocean, and for simplicity's sake all of the waves are perfectly the same exactly like you know sound waves or something are. Since you are just floating and not moving, the waves hit you, say 1 every 10 seconds. If you swim towards the waves though, they hit you quicker, say 1 every 5 seconds. If you swim with the waves, they hit you less often (but they hit you from behind, you don't swim into them), at maybe 1 every 20 seconds.
That's sort of how the Doppler effect works.

Like I explained with my car analogy.
You see a car from a distance with it's horn blowing but you cannot hear it, yet as the car comes closer, the sound wave travels , obviously faster than the car, so you hear the sound getting louder and louder until the car is on you, where it is at it's loudest and once it passes, you start to hear it fainter and fainter. correct?

No, its about the pitch of the sound, not how loud it is.

Quote from: Bollybill on March 03, 2013, 02:32:40 PM

The Doppler effect is actually really simple. Think about the waves on the ocean, and for simplicity's sake all of the waves are perfectly the same exactly like you know sound waves or something are. Since you are just floating and not moving, the waves hit you, say 1 every 10 seconds. If you swim towards the waves though, they hit you quicker, say 1 every 5 seconds. If you swim with the waves, they hit you less often (but they hit you from behind, you don't swim into them), at maybe 1 every 20 seconds.
That's sort of how the Doppler effect works.

Like I explained with my car analogy.
You see a car from a distance with it's horn blowing but you cannot hear it, yet as the car comes closer, the sound wave travels , obviously faster than the car, so you hear the sound getting louder and louder until the car is on you, where it is at it's loudest and once it passes, you start to hear it fainter and fainter. correct?

For a car analogy, think about the sound of a race car getting more high pitches right as it passes you then lower again.

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 03, 2013, 02:45:28 PM

Quote from: Bollybill on March 03, 2013, 02:32:40 PM

The Doppler effect is actually really simple. Think about the waves on the ocean, and for simplicity's sake all of the waves are perfectly the same exactly like you know sound waves or something are. Since you are just floating and not moving, the waves hit you, say 1 every 10 seconds. If you swim towards the waves though, they hit you quicker, say 1 every 5 seconds. If you swim with the waves, they hit you less often (but they hit you from behind, you don't swim into them), at maybe 1 every 20 seconds.
That's sort of how the Doppler effect works.

Like I explained with my car analogy.
You see a car from a distance with it's horn blowing but you cannot hear it, yet as the car comes closer, the sound wave travels , obviously faster than the car, so you hear the sound getting louder and louder until the car is on you, where it is at it's loudest and once it passes, you start to hear it fainter and fainter. correct?

No, its about the pitch of the sound, not how loud it is.

I know it's not about how loud, I was using it as in you using movement and frequency.

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 03, 2013, 02:45:28 PM

Quote from: Bollybill on March 03, 2013, 02:32:40 PM

The Doppler effect is actually really simple. Think about the waves on the ocean, and for simplicity's sake all of the waves are perfectly the same exactly like you know sound waves or something are. Since you are just floating and not moving, the waves hit you, say 1 every 10 seconds. If you swim towards the waves though, they hit you quicker, say 1 every 5 seconds. If you swim with the waves, they hit you less often (but they hit you from behind, you don't swim into them), at maybe 1 every 20 seconds.
That's sort of how the Doppler effect works.

Like I explained with my car analogy.
You see a car from a distance with it's horn blowing but you cannot hear it, yet as the car comes closer, the sound wave travels , obviously faster than the car, so you hear the sound getting louder and louder until the car is on you, where it is at it's loudest and once it passes, you start to hear it fainter and fainter. correct?

For a car analogy, think about the sound of a race car getting more high pitches right as it passes you then lower again.

Same as the horn, or if someone was out of the window going "NEYOWMMMMMMMMM" lol

Radar guns only work because of the Doppler effect.  It's not all that mysterious. 

Quote from: Rama Set on March 03, 2013, 02:59:30 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 03, 2013, 02:45:28 PM

Quote from: Bollybill on March 03, 2013, 02:32:40 PM

The Doppler effect is actually really simple. Think about the waves on the ocean, and for simplicity's sake all of the waves are perfectly the same exactly like you know sound waves or something are. Since you are just floating and not moving, the waves hit you, say 1 every 10 seconds. If you swim towards the waves though, they hit you quicker, say 1 every 5 seconds. If you swim with the waves, they hit you less often (but they hit you from behind, you don't swim into them), at maybe 1 every 20 seconds.
That's sort of how the Doppler effect works.

Like I explained with my car analogy.
You see a car from a distance with it's horn blowing but you cannot hear it, yet as the car comes closer, the sound wave travels , obviously faster than the car, so you hear the sound getting louder and louder until the car is on you, where it is at it's loudest and once it passes, you start to hear it fainter and fainter. correct?

For a car analogy, think about the sound of a race car getting more high pitches right as it passes you then lower again.

Same as the horn, or if someone was out of the window going "NEYOWMMMMMMMMM" lol

You're getting closer.  Maybe a picture will help.

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 03, 2013, 03:07:42 PM

Quote from: Rama Set on March 03, 2013, 02:59:30 PM

Quote from: sceptimatic on March 03, 2013, 02:45:28 PM

Quote from: Bollybill on March 03, 2013, 02:32:40 PM

The Doppler effect is actually really simple. Think about the waves on the ocean, and for simplicity's sake all of the waves are perfectly the same exactly like you know sound waves or something are. Since you are just floating and not moving, the waves hit you, say 1 every 10 seconds. If you swim towards the waves though, they hit you quicker, say 1 every 5 seconds. If you swim with the waves, they hit you less often (but they hit you from behind, you don't swim into them), at maybe 1 every 20 seconds.
That's sort of how the Doppler effect works.

Like I explained with my car analogy.
You see a car from a distance with it's horn blowing but you cannot hear it, yet as the car comes closer, the sound wave travels , obviously faster than the car, so you hear the sound getting louder and louder until the car is on you, where it is at it's loudest and once it passes, you start to hear it fainter and fainter. correct?

For a car analogy, think about the sound of a race car getting more high pitches right as it passes you then lower again.

Same as the horn, or if someone was out of the window going "NEYOWMMMMMMMMM" lol

You're getting closer.  Maybe a picture will help.

Yes, I fully understand it.