Another Bedford Level Field Trip

Hello to all!
 Well I'm off to the Bedford Level next month to scout and take photos.  Much like Daniel did here. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=31522.msg775089#msg775089

I'll also be armed with a long, long lens to do some photos and HD video.  Should be fun.

FYI, I've been studying this subject for 10 years or more with a few trips to the Library of Congress and sending friends to the British Library, collecting books and such.  But this will be my first trip to the canal (I live in the USA).  Looking at Daniel's thread I'm not sure what I'll get, but I'm keen to go.

On the East Coast of the US we have some 10 mile straight sections of canal that I also plan to visit.  No convenient bridges 5 miles apart, tho.  I've already done some of the sighting experiments across open bodies of water such as the San Francisco bay and from island to island in Hawaii.  I did see things that I should not have been able to see at that distance, so my curiosity is piqued.

I have to say that Google Earth has been a great help in my research.  When I first started it was very difficult to accurately find short distances across bodies of water when looking at maps.  Google Earth and its handy ruler make it so much easier.  Will Google Earth help me prove the Earth is flat?  Don't know, but  that would be pretty funny.

Sorry to drop right in here with big muddy feet and a trip already planned, but my research has been ongoing since for this forum began.  I'm psyched to be able to finally visit the canal after all these years.  I'm open to advice and requests.  Cheers!

Hello to all!
 Well I'm off to the Bedford Level next month to scout and take photos.  Much like Daniel did here. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=31522.msg775089#msg775089

I'll also be armed with a long, long lens to do some photos and HD video.  Should be fun.

FYI, I've been studying this subject for 10 years or more with a few trips to the Library of Congress and sending friends to the British Library, collecting books and such.  But this will be my first trip to the canal (I live in the USA).  Looking at Daniel's thread I'm not sure what I'll get, but I'm keen to go.

On the East Coast of the US we have some 10 mile straight sections of canal that I also plan to visit.  No convenient bridges 5 miles apart, tho.  I've already done some of the sighting experiments across open bodies of water such as the San Francisco bay and from island to island in Hawaii.  I did see things that I should not have been able to see at that distance, so my curiosity is piqued.

I have to say that Google Earth has been a great help in my research.  When I first started it was very difficult to accurately find short distances across bodies of water when looking at maps.  Google Earth and its handy ruler make it so much easier.  Will Google Earth help me prove the Earth is flat?  Don't know, but  that would be pretty funny.

Sorry to drop right in here with big muddy feet and a trip already planned, but my research has been ongoing since for this forum began.  I'm psyched to be able to finally visit the canal after all these years.  I'm open to advice and requests.  Cheers!

  Do you have pictures and results from the previous experiments, where you saw things that you should not have been able to see?

  

Alas, no.  I didn't have the setup to take photos like that.  All was observation by eye or with binoculars.
But I'm set now.  1250mm lens/spotting scope and camera adapter.  It will be interesting to do some "ship down" photos.  Will the long lens (telescope) really bring them back up?

While it's fun and fascinating to do these observations by eye, getting the photos will be much better.  Wish me luck!

Alas, no.  I didn't have the setup to take photos like that.  All was observation by eye or with binoculars.
But I'm set now.  1250mm lens/spotting scope and camera adapter.  It will be interesting to do some "ship down" photos.  Will the long lens (telescope) really bring them back up?

While it's fun and fascinating to do these observations by eye, getting the photos will be much better.  Wish me luck!

  Sure, good luck to you. I have been trying to do similar experiments, but the results so far have been inconclusive.

Thanks.   Agreed that it isn't easy but maybe armed with better equipment I can get good views.  Hoping to do a "Lady Blount" experiment, so to speak.

One of my favorites tricks to see over the horizon was when I lived on Maui.  I could sit in the water at Olowalu beach and clearly see Molokini crater 12 miles away.  As Molokini is a the most 160 feet high, only about the top 1/3 should have been visible.  That was not the case at all, I could see the whole thing.  To see the whole thing on a round earth, I should have been ~100' above the water. (at 100 feet up, the horizon is supposed to be 12 miles away) I only wish I'd had the equipment to photograph it at the time.

Yeah, that's a bummer. Why doesn't anybody ever have the proper equipment around when they would be able to get hard evidence of the earth's flatness? It really is a major inconvenience, I just don't understand it.

Perhaps they aren't boy scouts?

But I'm ready now and will give it my best try.  I'm actually putting a good bit of thought, research, effort and money into this.
Any suggestions as to how to proceed are welcome.  I'm quite sure there are things I've missed, so am quite open to help.

Perhaps they aren't boy scouts?

But I'm ready now and will give it my best try.  I'm actually putting a good bit of thought, research, effort and money into this.
Any suggestions as to how to proceed are welcome.  I'm quite sure there are things I've missed, so am quite open to help.

Remember to remain sufficiently high off the water. Refraction can mess with your results.

Great stuff William! Let us know how you get on.

Thanks!  

My biggest worry is being able to actually get to the water's edge and get a good view.  I hope that Daniel can tell me more about that.
Also I'm not sure where the "Old Bedford Bridge" is.  The Welney bridge is easy to find, but the Bedford bridge isn't obvious.  If one goes Northeast from Welney it's 5 miles to the bridge at Salters Lode.  But both Rowbotham and Wallace say the bridge is 6 miles away.   That, I believe, would put it at Welches Dam in the opposite direction.  Any thoughts?

I woke up this morning to realize that I am an IDIOT.  
My forum name was supposed to be  "Alfred Russell Wallace" or A.R. Wallace.   Where the hell did I get William?  Chrickey, what an idiot.
Just hope I don't make as big a goof at the canal.   Sheesh....


(At least I got the picture right)

good luck. I am interested in seeing your results!

I woke up this morning to realize that I am an IDIOT.  
My forum name was supposed to be  "Alfred Russell Wallace" or A.R. Wallace.   Where the hell did I get William?  

Perhaps you watched Braveheart too many times.

  That must be it!

Should I paint myself blue when I visit the canal?

That must be it!

Should I paint myself blue when I visit the canal?

Might as well, that ought to deter anybody from approaching you in order to ask what on earth it is that you're doing.

A good point.  But aren't they all FEs out there in the Fens anyway?

A good point.  But aren't they all FEs out there in the Fens anyway?

  One thing that may help that I have discovered so far. The resolution is not good while viewing 3- 5 miles. I made a big target to view from afar off. The target is about 4' high and 2 1/2' wide painted orange and black at 1' intervals. When I first started viewing I thought I would be able to see a coke can on the beach or something, but you can't from that far.
  I have not had the chance yet to view my target, but making out objects from a far distance is not easy.

Yes, that's something that has me worried.  6 miles is a long way off.  Seeing buildings or the shoreline at that distance isn't hard, but markers or plaques?  Using a bed sheet seems to be common practice. None of the published reports from Rowbotham, Wallace or Blount specify how powerful the telescopes they used were, but they did clearly see the bridges and markers.
My scope has a field of view of 1 degree as it now stands.  That's tight, but at 6 miles that means a field of view about 600' across.  The canal bridges are about 45' wide.
Used as a telephoto lens on the Sony A55 camera, the field of view should be similar - about 600' x 400'.  That should be about 360 pixels wide on the camera.  Not great, but OK.

Once I take the photos, let's see how close my calculations actually are.

I think Rowboatman said he was using a theodolite, expensive surveying equipment.

I think Rowboatman said he was using a theodolite, expensive surveying equipment.

  Also, I was using my brother inlaws's $1200 telescope. I am not familiar with the ratings and tehnical details of lenses and scopes. Even a $1200 telescope has surprisingly bad resolution when viewing a few miles. I also used his spotting scope and that almost seemed to show better detail.

Right.  The spotting scope as it is stands has 37X magnification.  I can change that with other eyepieces.  If coupled to the digital SLR it becomes the equivalent of a ~1900mm lens.  That's a whopper.

I'm going to try some long distance scoping in the coming days to verify what I can and can't see.   But I think that if Rowbotham, Wallace and Blount had no problems, I shouldn't either.

I look forward to the results. Best wishes.

Again, if you aren't high enough up from the water, refraction will mess with your results.

Thanks guys.
 I did a bit of long distance scoping today.  Went up on the top of a parking deck and looked at a water tower 5 miles away.  Very visible, including the cell antennas on top.  I even saw birds land on the tower, tho they were just specks.  The water tower is 55' wide, or a little wider than the canal bridge. It seems to occupy about 1/5 of the view.

At the canal I'll be as high off the water as the bridge + about 5'.  That's where most of the tests were done.  The refraction will make a little difference, but not enough to matter, I should think.

Just remember to document as many details as you can think of.  Things like atmospheric conditions, water temperature, air temperature at several distances above the water line (to establish any air temperature gradient), elevation above the water, focal length of the optics, camera used, and so on.

Just remember to document as many details as you can think of.  Things like atmospheric conditions, water temperature, air temperature at several distances above the water line (to establish any air temperature gradient), elevation above the water, focal length of the optics, camera used, and so on.

  Markjo your sig says"I've made up my mind don't confuse me with the facts" it sounds like you have changed your mind.

Shouldn't you all by at Easter services? 

(Oh wait, shouldn't I?)

Shouldn't you all by at Easter services? 

(Oh wait, shouldn't I?)

I'm going to work in 20 minutes.

Berny
Feeding those good Catholics.

Shouldn't you all by at Easter services? 

(Oh wait, shouldn't I?)

I'll be going any minute now.

Quote from: markjo on April 23, 2011, 09:45:28 PM

Just remember to document as many details as you can think of.  Things like atmospheric conditions, water temperature, air temperature at several distances above the water line (to establish any air temperature gradient), elevation above the water, focal length of the optics, camera used, and so on.

  Markjo your sig says"I've made up my mind don't confuse me with the facts" it sounds like you have changed your mind.

Well, since FE'ers don't post very many facts, I'm not really too worried.

James posts a lot of "facts", but not many facts.