I'm confused about a couple things

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I'm confused about a couple things
« on: May 22, 2015, 04:50:52 PM »
Really just want a couple things clarified from both points of view. Some of the points brought up by the FE society are at least convincing enough for me to entertain the idea of the earth being flat. I'm not convinced either way since I don't yet have the familiarity/understanding with certain concepts or the resources prove any, this is going to take some time and research. What I ask is to be pointed in the right direction to resources to come to a solid conclusion.

Since I lack the resources/tools of the proper scale to observe the earth from a certain distance myself, I believe that the best way to come closer to verifying FE or RE theory myself would be through some type of equation to determine the following point below made by Dubay.

The most nagging point brought up was by Dubay: He states that if the world were spinning on its axis at around 1040 miles an hour, then why don't we "travel" certain distances just by increasing altitude, waiting for a period of time, and then landing without contrived aerial movement? The FE model seems to be a strong explanation at first, but I want to make sure I understand the round earth explanation as well

1.) After searching for quite awhile now on how this point is refuted by conventional wisdom, I still can't find the counter argument. Where can I find it? It doesn't even have to be a "counter-argument", just a way to explain how air travel isn't completely sabotaged by the rotating earth within conventional discourse since I'm sure the question has been asked beforehand. I'd imagine this phenomenon should have at least been addressed even before the FE society came about.

Is there some other type of force that prevents aircraft from disassociating from earth's gravity or is it gravity itself that keeps aircraft from leaving the same frame of reference?Maybe pilots already include the underlying spin in their calculations to come to a specific landing site. Don't know where to begin and how many variables are actually included

2.) Wouldn't it be convincing if there a way to validate Dubay's point by using Newtonian discourse? Even if Newtonian physics are rejected by the FE society, there should be a way of proving Dubay's point using said language

An explanation would be nice, but once again I'd be more than happy if I were just pointed in the right direction for resources to reference. Not afraid of dedicating the time to learning physics

Thank you
« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 05:13:23 PM by IAmAhab »

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Rayzor

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Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2015, 09:36:20 PM »
The flat earth answer is that the earth doesn't move.  It's the center of the universe.

The round earth answer is that the atmosphere moves with the earth.   The atmospheric pressure is highest at ground level, because of the weight of all the air above, as you go higher the pressure drops and the temperature drops,  this is called the adiabatic lapse rate.   Air contains moisture and this is expressed in terms of humidity,  as you go higher the temperature drops below the dew point, the water in the atmosphere condenses and you get a temperature inversion which is the cloud base.   The difference in rotational speeds between the equator and the poles causes a banding effect in the atmosphere which can be observed.  Although the banding effect is more pronounced on planets that rotate faster like Jupiter.

The dual earth answer is that there is no atmosphere, air doesn't exist.

Not sure what the concave earth answer is?   

You might want to research a guy named Samuel Shelton.  He tried to patent the idea that you could travel like that,  and ended up founding a later incarnation of the flat earth society in the 1950's
I'm not sure on his flat earth credentials,  but someone here will know.

« Last Edit: May 22, 2015, 09:49:21 PM by Rayzor »
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Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2015, 10:10:57 PM »
The flat earth answer is that the earth doesn't move.  It's the center of the universe.

The round earth answer is that the atmosphere moves with the earth.   The atmospheric pressure is highest at ground level, because of the weight of all the air above, as you go higher the pressure drops and the temperature drops,  this is called the adiabatic lapse rate.   Air contains moisture and this is expressed in terms of humidity,  as you go higher the temperature drops below the dew point, the water in the atmosphere condenses and you get a temperature inversion which is the cloud base.   The difference in rotational speeds between the equator and the poles causes a banding effect in the atmosphere which can be observed.  Although the banding effect is more pronounced on planets that rotate faster like Jupiter.

The dual earth answer is that there is no atmosphere, air doesn't exist.

Not sure what the concave earth answer is?   

You might want to research a guy named Samuel Shelton.  He tried to patent the idea that you could travel like that,  and ended up founding a later incarnation of the flat earth society in the 1950's
I'm not sure on his flat earth credentials,  but someone here will know.

So are you basically saying that it's gravity that keeps everything (the atmosphere and everything included) within the same frame of reference as the spinning earth?

Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2015, 02:53:48 AM »
The flat earth answer is that the earth doesn't move.  It's the center of the universe.

The round earth answer is that the atmosphere moves with the earth.   The atmospheric pressure is highest at ground level, because of the weight of all the air above, as you go higher the pressure drops and the temperature drops,  this is called the adiabatic lapse rate.   Air contains moisture and this is expressed in terms of humidity,  as you go higher the temperature drops below the dew point, the water in the atmosphere condenses and you get a temperature inversion which is the cloud base.   The difference in rotational speeds between the equator and the poles causes a banding effect in the atmosphere which can be observed.  Although the banding effect is more pronounced on planets that rotate faster like Jupiter.

The dual earth answer is that there is no atmosphere, air doesn't exist.

Not sure what the concave earth answer is?   

You might want to research a guy named Samuel Shelton.  He tried to patent the idea that you could travel like that,  and ended up founding a later incarnation of the flat earth society in the 1950's
I'm not sure on his flat earth credentials,  but someone here will know.
The earth & universe are one & the same .Dual earth is two separate societies . One not aware two exsist.
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Rayzor

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Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2015, 03:50:05 AM »
So are you basically saying that it's gravity that keeps everything (the atmosphere and everything included) within the same frame of reference as the spinning earth?

Yes.   It also explains why things fall,  why the moon orbits the earth, why it causes tides, why the earth orbits the sun, how to put tv satellites into geostationary orbits,  why galaxies behave the way we observe and so on.

Flat earthers  have a problem with gravity, but this is not the forum for debate.   There is another thread in this forum specifically about gravity.



« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 03:52:11 AM by Rayzor »
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Weatherwax

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Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2015, 05:27:21 AM »
Another way to think of it is that we live in the earth rather than on it. We spend most of our time on the border between a solid layer and a gaseous layer. The surface of the earth is actually the edge of the atmosphere, rather than the edge of the solid layer.
A delusion is something that someone believes in despite a total lack of evidence - Prof. Richard Dawkins.

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Slemon

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Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2015, 08:00:34 AM »
The other way to think is that you clearly rotate with the Earth while you stand on its surface. You're not going to lose that momentum just by leaving the surface for a little time, especially with air continuing to push and keep you going.
If you've ever been on a plane, you'll know that you can go at incredible speed, but it feels as though you're almost stationary: and if you throw a ball up, it doesn't rocket to and out the back of the plane once it stops touching anything. It keeps its forward momentum.
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Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2015, 04:47:11 PM »
The other way to think is that you clearly rotate with the Earth while you stand on its surface. You're not going to lose that momentum just by leaving the surface for a little time, especially with air continuing to push and keep you going.
If you've ever been on a plane, you'll know that you can go at incredible speed, but it feels as though you're almost stationary: and if you throw a ball up, it doesn't rocket to and out the back of the plane once it stops touching anything. It keeps its forward momentum.
You just proved  Dubay argument for him. The ball on the plane is traving with in the inertia of the plane . There for not the inertia of the earth . This can easly be deduced by the plane flying the opposite direction of the claimed rotation of the earth & the ball still only acting to the plane inertia .
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
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mikeman7918

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Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2015, 06:25:49 PM »
If you are in a moving airplane or car and you jump then you won't go flying back and slam against the back wall so long as the vehicle is not accelerating.  Same is true for the Earth, everything on it has momentum so even if something leaves the ground it it still traveling the same speed as the ground.
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Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2015, 04:59:29 AM »
If you are in a moving airplane or car and you jump then you won't go flying back and slam against the back wall so long as the vehicle is not accelerating.  Same is true for the Earth, everything on it has momentum so even if something leaves the ground it it still traveling the same speed as the ground.
The ball is traverling with the planes inertia . The planes energy is shifting the matter in front of it not the ball. If it wasn't , then throwing the ball up would render a differance in result of where the ball would land.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 05:02:07 AM by charles bloomington »
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
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Slemon

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Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2015, 05:27:43 AM »
You just proved  Dubay argument for him. The ball on the plane is traving with in the inertia of the plane . There for not the inertia of the earth . This can easly be deduced by the plane flying the opposite direction of the claimed rotation of the earth & the ball still only acting to the plane inertia .
The ball is travelling with the inertia of the plane, and the plane is in turn travelling with the inertia of the Earth. The plane can fly counter to the rotation, in the same way you can run on a treadmill. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2015, 05:48:56 AM »
You just proved  Dubay argument for him. The ball on the plane is traving with in the inertia of the plane . There for not the inertia of the earth . This can easly be deduced by the plane flying the opposite direction of the claimed rotation of the earth & the ball still only acting to the plane inertia .
The ball is travelling with the inertia of the plane, and the plane is in turn travelling with the inertia of the Earth. The plane can fly counter to the rotation, in the same way you can run on a treadmill. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.
A plane traverling in an oppersite direction is not traverling with the earth inertia. Thats just nonsense feed bullshit telling people it is traverling with earth inertia & having them believe such garbage. For the plane to be bound  by the earth inertia , it would have to be traveling in the same direction as earth  rotation.  Not the opposite direction.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 05:55:39 AM by charles bloomington »
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don't…:

Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2015, 06:05:24 AM »
Now jane my daring when you run on a treadmill your running against its inertia.
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don't…:

Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2015, 06:08:03 AM »
You really are a naughty girl , well in need of a spanking for telling fibs. ;)
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don't…:

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Slemon

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Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2015, 06:20:48 AM »
A plane traverling in an oppersite direction is not traverling with the earth inertia. Thats just nonsense feed bullshit telling people it is traverling with earth inertia & having them believe such garbage. For the plane to be bound  by the earth inertia , it would have to be traveling in the same direction as earth  rotation.  Not the opposite direction.
Moving against something's movement does not mean you're ignoring it. Clearly, if you run on a treadmill, you're not going nearly as far as if you run on unmoving land.
Throw a ball up, down, forward, backwards while in a moving plane, at no point does it ignore the overall speed of the plane. It's the same principle, applied on a larger scale.
We all know deep in our hearts that Jane is the last face we'll see before we're choked to death!

Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2015, 06:40:55 AM »
A plane traverling in an oppersite direction is not traverling with the earth inertia. Thats just nonsense feed bullshit telling people it is traverling with earth inertia & having them believe such garbage. For the plane to be bound  by the earth inertia , it would have to be traveling in the same direction as earth  rotation.  Not the opposite direction.
Moving against something's movement does not mean you're ignoring it. Clearly, if you run on a treadmill, you're not going nearly as far as if you run on unmoving land.
Throw a ball up, down, forward, backwards while in a moving plane, at no point does it ignore the overall speed of the plane. It's the same principle, applied on a larger scale.
Did you say ignoring . No were not going to do that .Were going to take the fuel consumption & flight time of a plane in to consideration. With it providing a practical result to gauge against your theory.
When it comes to Jane's standards .I'm lower then an old stove she has in her garage.
Shannon Noll and Natalie Bassingthwaighte - Don't…:

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iWitness

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Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2015, 06:03:42 AM »


The Firmament aka Sky aka Heavens was created to separate Water above from Water below.

The Air inside the Firmament creates Pressure or Friction which allows movement and flight. Your body which is 99% water is denser than air which makes you fall to the ground and less dense than water which makes you float.

The reason rockets and hot air balloons can only travel to 120,000 feet altitude is because the Air pressure is lower. The balloons expand until they burst and rockets seize to ignite.
Disclaimer: I am confused. Everything I say is speculative and not admissible in a court of law; however, I am neither insane nor a threat to myself or others. I am simply curious about everything in life and enjoy talking about crazy shit. Oh, & btw I like turtles.

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mikeman7918

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Re: I'm confused about a couple things
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2015, 09:18:42 AM »
The Air inside the Firmament creates Pressure or Friction which allows movement and flight. Your body which is 99% water is denser than air which makes you fall to the ground and less dense than water which makes you float.



Things fall because of pressure and density differences that are there because things fall.  Do you honestly see no flaws in this logic?

The reason rockets and hot air balloons can only travel to 120,000 feet altitude is because the Air pressure is lower. The balloons expand until they burst and rockets seize to ignite.

Rockets sometimes have trouble igniting at high altitude because it's very cold, but that can be fixed my warming it up and once a rocket is ignited do you honestly think that they have trouble staying warm?
I am having a video war with Jeranism.
See the thread about it here.