Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum

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Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« on: September 17, 2013, 11:39:02 PM »
Check it out.



From the Guardian:
"Google's latest doodle marks the birthday of Jean Bernard Léon Foucault, the French physicist and inventor of a pendulum that demonstrated the rotation of the earth.

Foucault is also credited with making an early measurement of the speed of light and with the discovery of eddy currents: electric currents induced within conductors by a changing magnetic field in the conductor, which are sometimes called Foucault currents.

The son of a publisher, Foucault was born in Paris in 1819, where he initially studied medicine but soon switched to physics. Initially, the primary focus of his research was into LJM Daguerre's photographic processes, while he was also an assistant to the bacteriologist Alfred Donne in the course of his work on microscopic anatomy.

After collaborating with his fellow physicist Hippolyte Fizeau on a series of investigations into the intensity of the light of the sun, he made his name at the Panthéon in Paris in 1851 with a demonstration that involved suspending a 67-metre, 28kg pendulum suspended from the building's dome.

The plane of its motion, with respect to the earth, rotated slowly clockwise. The experiment sparked a pendulum-mania across Europe and the United States, and crowds were attracted to observe so-called "Foucault pendulums" in major cities on both sides of the Atlantic.

Later achievements included devising a method of testing the mirror of a reflecting telescope to determine its shape, the so-called "Foucault knife-edge test".

By way of recognition for his achievements, Foucault was made a member of the Bureau des Longitudes, of the Royal Society of London and of the Legion d'Honneur.

The physicist, whose name is one of 72 French scientists, engineers, and mathematicians engraved on the Eiffel Tower, died in Paris in 1868."
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squevil

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2013, 03:45:55 AM »
I already posted this in the lounge with about 1% of your effort and minus the copy paste.

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Rama Set

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2013, 04:06:56 AM »
I for one, appreciate the extra effort. Thanks FlatOrange.
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rottingroom

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2013, 04:33:51 AM »
Just curious if there is a FE explanation for this?

Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2013, 04:54:36 AM »
Just to complete this topic, this is what Voliva said about the Foucault pendulum as quoted by Martin Gardner in Fads and Fallacies in The Name of Science page 18:

Quote
One of the best known proofs of the earth's rotation makes use of a device called the Foucault pendulum. This consists of a heavy weight suspended on a long wire. As the weight swings back and forth, inertia causes it to stay in the same plane of swing while the earth turns beneath it. The result is that the plane of swing seems to rotate slowly. The article quoted above disposes neatly of this proof. "If the earth's motion has anything to do with the movement of the pendulum," the author asks, "why must you start it going? The real fact is, and everybody who gives it a serious thought must see, that if the earth were whirling around with the speed astronomers say it is, the pendulum would fly straight out in space and stay there."
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rottingroom

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 05:00:03 AM »
Just to complete this topic, this is what Voliva said about the Foucault pendulum as quoted by Martin Gardner in Fads and Fallacies in The Name of Science page 18:

Quote
One of the best known proofs of the earth's rotation makes use of a device called the Foucault pendulum. This consists of a heavy weight suspended on a long wire. As the weight swings back and forth, inertia causes it to stay in the same plane of swing while the earth turns beneath it. The result is that the plane of swing seems to rotate slowly. The article quoted above disposes neatly of this proof. "If the earth's motion has anything to do with the movement of the pendulum," the author asks, "why must you start it going? The real fact is, and everybody who gives it a serious thought must see, that if the earth were whirling around with the speed astronomers say it is, the pendulum would fly straight out in space and stay there."

That's ridiculous.

Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2013, 05:02:25 AM »
I know it is but that is what FEer would probably say.
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squevil

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2013, 05:24:55 AM »
Some would say AWT accounts for it.

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rottingroom

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2013, 05:30:05 AM »
Some would say AWT accounts for it.

Doesn't the precise oscillation rate as observed at different latitudes mean anything to FE'rs? Just put 2 + 2 together.

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Rama Set

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2013, 06:46:05 AM »
I believe I have also read magnetism proposed as one possibility, although it was thrown out as a remote possibility.
Aether is the  characteristic of action or inaction of charged  & noncharged particals.

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Pongo

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2013, 07:12:00 AM »
Just curious if there is a FE explanation for this?

Yes. Celestial gravitation.

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th3rm0m3t3r0

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2013, 07:14:48 AM »
Just curious if there is a FE explanation for this?

Yes. Celestial gravitation.

Well, how large and far away do you think all of the stars/planets are?
Most FE models have proven to fall short of celestial gravitation having any really significant effect on our planet.

Also, I love when a theory, like gravity, which is largely denied in FET is used to explain these types of things. Why do other planets and stars have gravity?
Why would that effect a flat, UA-propelled disk?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 07:17:19 AM by th3rm0m3t3r0 »


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rottingroom

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2013, 07:22:44 AM »
Just curious if there is a FE explanation for this?

Yes. Celestial gravitation.

???

Quote from: Flat Earth Wiki
Celestial Gravitation is a part of some Flat Earth models which involve an attraction by all objects of mass on earth to the heavenly bodies. This is not the same as Gravity, since Celestial Gravitation does not imply an attraction between objects of mass on Earth. Celestial Gravitation accounts for tides and other gravimetric anomalies across the Earth's plane.

How can anyone take the wiki serious when this is all the information provided about some extra law for physics that must be applied for any of this FE stuff to work?

However far away the stars (we can at least assume they are relatively far away), imagine the size of these gravitational fields? Not to mention the seemingly selective quality of this type of gravitation. Celestial objects do it but Earth doesn't? The only zetetic observation to be made about how gravity works is the observation we see on earth, attributing it to the heavens is a whole lot of wishful thinking about something that FE'rs have no intention to verify.

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th3rm0m3t3r0

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2013, 07:24:58 AM »
Just curious if there is a FE explanation for this?

Yes. Celestial gravitation.

???

Quote from: Flat Earth Wiki
Celestial Gravitation is a part of some Flat Earth models which involve an attraction by all objects of mass on earth to the heavenly bodies. This is not the same as Gravity, since Celestial Gravitation does not imply an attraction between objects of mass on Earth. Celestial Gravitation accounts for tides and other gravimetric anomalies across the Earth's plane.

How can anyone take the wiki serious when this is all the information provided about some extra law for physics that must be applied for any of this FE stuff to work?


Because these people have never heard of Occam's razor, apparently.


I don't profess to be correct.
Quote from: sceptimatic
I am correct.

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rottingroom

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2013, 07:37:37 AM »
And if celestial objects could be responsible then why not the moon? Doesn't the moon look closer? So if gravity, to a FE'r is something that might exist, why not the moon? Yet, objects with distances (that in the FE mind) that you object to being knowable are causing it?

Why do we need to make up so much stuff to account for the Earth being flat without so much as your imagination to make up for it?

But RE has one anomaly that is admittedly peculiar by all of science and the FE side can just keep hammering on about how it's nothing but made-up magic?

Come on now.

Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2013, 07:55:11 AM »
Just curious if there is a FE explanation for this?

Yes. Celestial gravitation.

One liner like this is meaningless, so please elaborate. Don't just throw one liner without explaining.
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squevil

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2013, 08:07:45 AM »
The pendulum moves at the same speed as the sun I'd presume. And the sun is a celestial object. Some claim that gravitation pull gets weaker as you go higher. The theory is that the sun is pulling you slightly (as do the stars and moon too). This is celestial gravitation.

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th3rm0m3t3r0

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2013, 08:14:43 AM »
The pendulum moves at the same speed as the sun I'd presume. And the sun is a celestial object. Some claim that gravitation pull gets weaker as you go higher. The theory is that the sun is pulling you slightly (as do the stars and moon too). This is celestial gravitation.
My problem with this is that it entails selective gravitation.
The Earth has no gravity, rather it is simulated why whatever you choose to believe.
Yet, the Sun and moon and stars have gravity, and their gravity is effecting our non-existent gravity somehow?
Are we outside of the space-time continuum?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 08:19:57 AM by th3rm0m3t3r0 »


I don't profess to be correct.
Quote from: sceptimatic
I am correct.

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rottingroom

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2013, 08:29:13 AM »
The pendulum moves at the same speed as the sun I'd presume. And the sun is a celestial object. Some claim that gravitation pull gets weaker as you go higher. The theory is that the sun is pulling you slightly (as do the stars and moon too). This is celestial gravitation.
My problem with this is that it entails selective gravitation.
The Earth has no gravity, rather it is simulated why whatever you choose to believe.
Yet, the Sun and moon and stars have gravity, and their gravity is effecting our non-existent gravity somehow?
Are we outside of the space-time continuum?

Yes selective gravity. The concept of gravity, that same concept that gets condemned on these forums by the FE side, is now actually a thing that's acceptable but now with shiny brand new selective attributes!

It's real cute to give RE a hard time about gravity until the moment comes along when FE realizes they need it too. Only their version of it is even more magical.

Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2013, 08:47:21 AM »
The pendulum moves at the same speed as the sun I'd presume. And the sun is a celestial object. Some claim that gravitation pull gets weaker as you go higher. The theory is that the sun is pulling you slightly (as do the stars and moon too). This is celestial gravitation.

I think you need to understand how a Foucault pendulum works first:
  • It rotates clockwise in the Northern Hemisphere and counterclockwise in the Southern Hemisphere
  • Its rotational speed depends on its latitude. A Foucault pendulum at 30° latitude rotates 180° per day whereas that at poles (90°), rotates 360° per day
And this is regardless of where the sun is (summer solstice, winter solstice, equinox, or anywhere in between).

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squevil

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2013, 08:57:46 AM »
I don't need to learn to understand anything. I'm just telling you about FET. You guys are asking questions about it. No answer you get will be good enough because you just want to argue against it.

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rottingroom

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2013, 09:08:23 AM »
I don't need to learn to understand anything. I'm just telling you about FET. You guys are asking questions about it. No answer you get will be good enough because you just want to argue against it.

That kind of logic may work on children:

"Why can't I go outside daddy?"
"Because I said so."

Just trying to help you see, that these flat earth theories are nonsense. There are no decent explanations for a flat earth.

If you just try to consider that it is round, you'd realize how easy it is to make sense of stuff like:

Motion of celestial objects including stars, moon and sun, Foucault's pendulum, movement of cyclonic and anti-cyclonic storms, seasons and there are many more. Each one of these is explained by one thing:

The earth is round and it is spinning. It's so simple.

Occam's Razor at it's finest.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 09:27:24 AM by rottingroom »

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th3rm0m3t3r0

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2013, 09:22:52 AM »
I don't need to learn to understand anything. I'm just telling you about FET. You guys are asking questions about it. No answer you get will be good enough because you just want to argue against it.

No.. no answer is good enough because the answers are inconsistent and in some situations demonstrably false.
If I just accept your answer with no questioning, what does that make me?
That's not very zetetic, now is it?
Now, the fact that we find your answer inadequate and preposterous should make you seek more answers and relay that information to us.
The fact that you are obviously unable to do this does not make me more willing to believe your theory.
In fact, it makes me want to do the opposite.
If you proposed a more plausible explanation, I might consider it.
The answer you proposed, however, just proves my point about inconsistencies and the like.

You can't come up with anything better than selective celestial gravitation?
Then this.

Quote
The earth is round and it is spinning. It's so simple.

Occam's Razor at it's finest.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 09:41:21 AM by th3rm0m3t3r0 »


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Tom Bishop

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2013, 09:43:12 AM »

Look up Match's Principle. Mach's Principle explains that if the earth was still and the all the stars went around the Earth then the gravitational pull of the stars would pull the pendulum. As Mach said "The universe is not twice given, with an earth at rest and an earth in motion; but only once, with its relative motions alone determinable. It is accordingly, not permitted us to say how things would be if the earth did not rotate."

From Amir D. Aczel, Pendulum: Léon Foucault and the triumph of science

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th3rm0m3t3r0

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2013, 10:08:01 AM »

Look up Match's Principle. Mach's Principle explains that if the earth was still and the all the stars went around the Earth then the gravitational pull of the stars would pull the pendulum. As Mach said "The universe is not twice given, with an earth at rest and an earth in motion; but only once, with its relative motions alone determinable. It is accordingly, not permitted us to say how things would be if the earth did not rotate."

From Amir D. Aczel, Pendulum: Léon Foucault and the triumph of science
"It is accordingly, not permitted us to say how things would be if the earth did not rotate."
Also, Mach's Principle says that the gravitational effect of the stars on the pendulum would be, and I quote Einstein, "with a practically unmeasurably small angular velocity".

When a Foucault pendulum is suspended at the equator, the plane of oscillation remains fixed relative to Earth. At other latitudes, the plane of oscillation precesses relative to Earth, but slower than at the pole; the angular speed, ω (measured in clockwise degrees per sidereal day), is proportional to the sine of the latitude, φ:

where latitudes north and south of the equator are defined as positive and negative, respectively. For example, a Foucault pendulum at 30° south latitude, viewed from above by an earthbound observer, rotates counterclockwise 360° in two days.

Seems pretty measurable to me.
Ergo, the Earth is a spinning spheroid.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 10:14:38 AM by th3rm0m3t3r0 »


I don't profess to be correct.
Quote from: sceptimatic
I am correct.

Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2013, 10:12:44 AM »
Some would say AWT accounts for it.

Doesn't the precise oscillation rate as observed at different latitudes mean anything to FE'rs? Just put 2 + 2 together.

FErs haven't graduated from 1+1 addition yet; don't rush them!!
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rottingroom

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2013, 10:18:10 AM »

Look up Match's Principle. Mach's Principle explains that if the earth was still and the all the stars went around the Earth then the gravitational pull of the stars would pull the pendulum. As Mach said "The universe is not twice given, with an earth at rest and an earth in motion; but only once, with its relative motions alone determinable. It is accordingly, not permitted us to say how things would be if the earth did not rotate."

From Amir D. Aczel, Pendulum: Léon Foucault and the triumph of science

That's a major "if" considering the observations don't show the stars going around the earth, unless you assume the stars just all happen to be doing a seeming synchronous and strangely compatible motion with respect to earths poles. If that is the case then you have to explain many more things again such as why do the stars synchronously dance around the poles, why do the stars make such wild motions and why is the idea of a spinning globe such an easier example?

I can see how a spinning globe were a reasonable answer by simply standing in the center of a room, looking up and taking a spin.

Quote from: rottingroom
Motion of celestial objects including stars, moon and sun, Foucault's pendulum, movement of cyclonic and anti-cyclonic storms, seasons and there are many more. Each one of these is explained by one thing.

Isn't it remarkable how one idea (earth spinning) can be the same explanation for all of these things? Why do you think it is better to make a generalization that the earth must be flat, then build upon that, even when a round earth seems so much more in tune with observations and continue to fit with each additional observation.

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Junker

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2013, 10:45:37 AM »
It has been requested that this thread be moved to FED.  I am inclined to agree and am moving it.

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Rushy

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2013, 11:12:38 AM »
Spheres are not the only shape capable of rotation.

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rottingroom

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Re: Google Doodle - 9/18 - Foucault Pendulum
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2013, 11:16:09 AM »
Spheres are not the only shape capable of rotation.

Sure but you are ignoring the fact that Foucault's pendulum works in the opposite direction in the southern hemisphere. Not possible on a plane.