I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?

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I have seen this question come up various times and I am shocked by how no FE er even dignifies it with a response. It's like the billions of people who live in the far south do not even exist. FET claims to base itself on "common sense" and on the fact that if the earth looks flat, it must be flat. Well, my issue is that I experience every summer (December), as being comprised of days with very long daylight hours (15 hours), yet the model for explaining the seasons in FET cannot produce such long summer days in the far south. Flat earthers, stop ignoring us and please, at least come up with a response.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 06:57:21 PM by nanu »

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darknavyseal

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  • Round Earth, for sure, maybe.
Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2013, 12:19:04 AM »
There is no southern hemisphere. You are part of a huge conspiracy. How much are they paying you?

/end troll.

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Scintific Method

  • 1448
  • Trust, but verify.
Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2013, 12:34:11 AM »
Nice one dns!  ;D

nanu, prepared to be ignored. I have found that asking a question, the answer to which must inevitably contain something along the lines of "our model is wrong", generally results in a very long silence. Some such questions have remained unanswered for several years.
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2013, 07:54:52 AM »
What really frustrates me about having this question ignored is that it is not some obscure experiment, or something like going into space or Antarctica (which only a few thousand people have done). This is the day to day experience of Billions of people. The model makes no intuitive sense to anyone living south of the equator. I think it at least warrants some explanation, however contrived it might be.

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Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2013, 08:44:47 AM »
You'll get used to being frustrated if you stick around here long enough. I asked a similar, seemingly very simple question a while back: Why is the Flat Earth model centered around the North Pole anyway? I don't think I got a single FE response. That's the thing about the FE theory though - it actually holds up better the more isolated and ignorant you are. If you never strayed more than a few miles from where you live, and didn't have any knowledge of anything outside of that, it would actually be pretty easy to believe. Observing the motions of the heavens would help, but only if you made very precise observations over a long period of time, like Ptolemy did with his observatory.

So, don't take this place too seriously and you will probably have fun with it. Realize that some people are outright trolls, some are very ignorant, and some are outright delusional. There may be a few people in the middle category you can sway, but I haven't seen it happen yet. Don't expect much in the way of answers, not ones that make much sense anyway. It's a very good exercise in finding out what you really do know, and how you know it. And if you like to argue for the sake of arguing, that can be fun too.
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2013, 11:29:08 AM »
A response would be nice though.. not matter how crazy. If you go through all the trouble of defending FET, maintaining this society and this web site, there should be at least a response to a simple question that reflects on the realities of billions of people.

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Shmeggley

  • 1909
  • Eppur si muove!
Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2013, 11:33:00 AM »
A response would be nice though.. not matter how crazy. If you go through all the trouble of defending FET, maintaining this society and this web site, there should be at least a response to a simple question that reflects on the realities of billions of people.

Just be patient and keep posting. Get involved in a discussion and try to plug your own thread once in a while, where it's relevant. I thought I had a great idea for a thread, and it took weeks to get any replies.
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2013, 08:21:26 AM »
I have seen this question come up various times and I am shocked by how no FE er even dignifies it with a response. It's like the billions of people who live in the far south do not even exist. FET claims to base itself on "common sense" and on the fact that if the earth looks flat, it must be flat. Well, my issue is that I experience every summer (December), as being comprised of days with very long daylight hours (15 hours), yet the model for explaining the seasons in FET cannot produce such long summer days in the far south. Flat earthers, stop ignoring us and please, at least come up with a response.

Preface all of this with a great bbbbbiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiggggg IMHO.  ;D

This is my theory nanu :
The moderators and FE contributors are really just as sane as you and I .......
But they are continually thinking up the most insane and ridiculous posts about a "Flat Earth" just to get a debate going in which the reality of facts about  a "Round Earth", distances to the moon, the sun and stars, et cetera , et cetera and so forth will get posted. And then FE will try to de-rail or get the subject off topic and keep it going as long as possible.

Of course, there is a possibity of  another explanation. But I'm too polite to publish that. The moderators might be offended.  ???

For example .:
I've been plugging my pet thread of "Ham Radio Measurements Of The Distance From The Earth To The Moon" for some time and have gotten nowhere ......From as far as anything that makes sense from the FES that is.
Maybe I should have gotten frustrated.
However, maybe I have a perverse sense of humor.  ???
It has gotten really insane and hilarious in the process.
Welcome to la-la-land, nanu !

PS- A "Round Earther" had to intervene with an illustration showing how the Flat Earth "Distance From The Earth To The Moon" had been calculated. FE didn't even bother to try. :'(


PPS- I think shmeggley and I must be in cahoots ? We're just other members of the great "Round Earth Conspiracy" which has nothing but lies and fake photos of a so-called "Round Earth" , space ships, etc. to post on this forum.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 08:52:23 AM by Googleotomy »
Stick close to your close to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window and see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never go to sea !

Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2013, 08:56:20 AM »
There is no southern hemisphere. You are part of a huge conspiracy. How much are they paying you?

/end troll.

Nanu....Haven't you ever looked up in the sky and seen that spotlight they call "The Sun" circling  in orbit above you around the stationary flat earth on which you are standing ?  ???
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 09:00:17 AM by Googleotomy »
Stick close to your close to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window and see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never go to sea !

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Ezo

  • 24
Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2013, 12:23:47 PM »
Well, my issue is that I experience every summer (December), as being comprised of days with very long daylight hours (15 hours), yet the model for explaining the seasons in FET cannot produce such long summer days in the far south.

I am curious to understand the problem, in details. Why the Sun's path from the FE model do not fit with your summer?

I have started to collect all the arguments supporting and rejecting both FE and RE models and I don't know if this one is good enough to be saved. :)
Sorry, I didn't have the chance to study English in school.

Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2013, 12:53:33 PM »
Well, my issue is that I experience every summer (December), as being comprised of days with very long daylight hours (15 hours), yet the model for explaining the seasons in FET cannot produce such long summer days in the far south.

I am curious to understand the problem, in details. Why the Sun's path from the FE model do not fit with your summer?

I have started to collect all the arguments supporting and rejecting both FE and RE models and I don't know if this one is good enough to be saved. :)

there is an FE  diagram on another topic which explains how the seasons occur because the sun "shifts gears" and changes its orbit .
Stick close to your close to your P.C.and never go to sea
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Look out your window and see what you shall see
And you all may be Rulers of The Flat Earth Society

Chorus:
Yes ! Never, never, never go to sea !

Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2013, 01:04:42 PM »
Well, my issue is that I experience every summer (December), as being comprised of days with very long daylight hours (15 hours), yet the model for explaining the seasons in FET cannot produce such long summer days in the far south.

I am curious to understand the problem, in details. Why the Sun's path from the FE model do not fit with your summer?

I have started to collect all the arguments supporting and rejecting both FE and RE models and I don't know if this one is good enough to be saved. :)

The FE model of the sun is that it circles about the north pole. Since it is always above the Earth, the FE explanation for how it sets is that it gets too far away and/or the atmosphere gets in the way, making the light unable to reach areas that are at night. Whether or not the sun shines in all directions, this is usually referred to as the 'spotlight sun' because it would cast a circle of light upon the Earth. Inside that circle it is day, and outside it is night.

Seasons are caused by the sun orbiting closer to or farther from the north pole. When it's close, it's northern summer and southern winter. When it's farthest, it's the southern summer and northern winter.

Nanu has observed that where he lives/lived, south of the equator, his summers experience extraordinarily long days. Every day consisted of 15 hours of sunlight and only 9 of shade (similar as to when I was in the Falkland Islands). However, a circular spot of light on the Earth cannot provide a location south of the equator (and probably many places north of it) with 15 hours of sunlight for every 9 of night.

The many proposed theories are unable to have a circular spot of light and provide the southern hemisphere with more day than night. There have been diagrams, but I cannot find them for the life of me. Others may assist in that regard. See here for more information: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,57515.0.html#.Ufltd43U9KI

As for your quest, may I suggest a couple threads?
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,59240.msg1516831.html#msg1516831
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,56592.0.html#.UfltwI3U9KI

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pax

  • 61
Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2013, 01:26:51 PM »
Nice one dns!  ;D

nanu, prepared to be ignored. I have found that asking a question, the answer to which must inevitably contain something along the lines of "our model is wrong", generally results in a very long silence. Some such questions have remained unanswered for several years.

This.

It's unfortunate too. Even though the Earth is very obviously round, it would be fun to see how far a rational debate could go without degenerating into Russell's Teapot, or conspiracy theories. Though not particularly compelling, a devil's advocate for Flat Earth who had a good grasp of the hard sciences, upper maths, and basic skill at debate would prove a fun chess match, even if the winner is already a known quantity. Unfortunately, the Flat Earth side never seems to produce anything but circular arguments, condemnation without premise, and mainly ignores anything above a third grade reading level. 

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2013, 05:13:11 PM »
Moved.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Jingle Jangle

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Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2013, 07:47:27 AM »
RE theory has many contradictions about the relationship of the sun and the earth and seasons.  During July the sun is the furthest from the earth and during January it is the closest, this contradicts common sense in terms of what conditions we see during winter and summer.  Remember that the earth is said to possess a somewhat elliptical motion around the sun.  In addition to the aforesaid information,  the scale of the earth to the sun in RE theory relates to a pea to a two foot diameter sphere.  Impossible with that great size for there to be an absence of heat during day and night, or even between certain seasons...

Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2013, 08:04:57 AM »
RE theory has many contradictions about the relationship of the sun and the earth and seasons.  During July the sun is the furthest from the earth and during January it is the closest

The closest being ~147 million km and the furthest being ~152 million km. Not a wild amount.

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this contradicts common sense in terms of what conditions we see during winter and summer

First it only contradicts this 'common sense' if you're in the Northern hemisphere. On my latitude the sun barely rises in winter and it doesn't get fully dark in summer. My common sense tells me the 18 hours the sun spends blazing in the sky in summer is what causes the season. Meanwhile in winter the few hours the sun is even visible there's barely any perceptible heat from it.


Quote
Remember that the earth is said to possess a somewhat elliptical motion around the sun.  In addition to the aforesaid information,  the scale of the earth to the sun in RE theory relates to a pea to a two foot diameter sphere. impossible with that great size for there to be an absence of heat during day and night, or even between certain seasons...

The RE sun is indeed enormously large and energetic. But the Earth is comparatively tiny and distant even at its closest point. An interesting exercise is to calculate the percentage of energy that the sun gives off that the Earth actually receives. In human terms the solar energy the planet gets per second is staggering. But it's an extremely small amount of the total solar output.

By virtue of the RE earth being a sphere half of it is always in searing sunlight and half looks out into cold dark space. That averages out to a nice temperature for us. The seasons being a consequence of the axial tilt meaning that the range of temperatures can certainly vary.

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therationalist56

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Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2013, 08:13:29 AM »
RE theory has many contradictions about the relationship of the sun and the earth and seasons.  During July the sun is the furthest from the earth and during January it is the closest, this contradicts common sense in terms of what conditions we see during winter and summer.  Remember that the earth is said to possess a somewhat elliptical motion around the sun.  In addition to the aforesaid information,  the scale of the earth to the sun in RE theory relates to a pea to a two foot diameter sphere.  Impossible with that great size for there to be an absence of heat during day and night, or even between certain seasons...

Its not the distance from the sun that causes the seasons but the tilt of the earth. During July, while the Earth may be furthest away from the sun, the Northern Hemisphere is tilted towards the sun which causes an uneven heating of the earth which causes Summer in the Northern hemisphere and Winter in the Southern Hemisphere. This is an observed phenomena that can only be explained by a round earth (unless you think the seasons lie). If the seasons were dependent on how far away the earth is from the sun, there would be no seasons (and this is observed on planets with little to no tilt about their axis). I'm not sure what you are trying to get across with your second point. Are you insinuating that there are no seasons and no night and day? Help me understand here because it makes absolutely zero sense.

Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2013, 08:24:42 AM »
RE theory has many contradictions about the relationship of the sun and the earth and seasons.  During July the sun is the furthest from the earth and during January it is the closest, this contradicts common sense in terms of what conditions we see during winter and summer.  Remember that the earth is said to possess a somewhat elliptical motion around the sun.  In addition to the aforesaid information,  the scale of the earth to the sun in RE theory relates to a pea to a two foot diameter sphere.  Impossible with that great size for there to be an absence of heat during day and night, or even between certain seasons...

The distance from the Earth to the Sun doesn't really matter when compared with the angle at which the sunlight hits the surface of the Earth. The poles aren't cold because they're a few thousand miles farther from the sun, they're cold because the sunlight is either nearly parallel to the ground or simply not there at all.

To make a scale model of the Earth-sun system (in RE terms, at least), place a basketball on the ground. Place a dried pea 2,774 meters (9,191 feet) away. Place a second pea 2,683 meters (8802 feet) away from the basketball.

As for the heat, yes the Sun is huge but we're REALLY far away from it (see above example). The amount of energy we receive from the sun is done according to the Inverse Square Law, which states that the energy per square meter decreases really fast as you get farther away. This means the Earth receives at most 0.00005 times the energy as an identical Earth a million kilometers (621,371 miles) from the sun.

This inverse square law also shows why we're not warmer when we're closest to the sun. At perihelion (when we're closest to the sun) we absorb only 7% more energy than we do at aphelion (when we're farthest from the sun). Instead, the angle at which the sun's light hits the Earth varies by 46 degrees--easily enough to account for the seasons.

So no, RE theory doesn't have any contradictions about the relationship of the sun and the earth and seasons.

Re: I live in the southern hemisphere. Can any FE explain my summer?
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2013, 09:03:35 AM »
Well, my issue is that I experience every summer (December), as being comprised of days with very long daylight hours (15 hours), yet the model for explaining the seasons in FET cannot produce such long summer days in the far south.

Perhaps you could also do an experiment to see if the sun appears to move 2,049mph overhead, as measuring by latitude lines from the north pole gives distances of 4,602 miles to the Tropic of Cancer resulting in a sun speed of 1,204mph, 6,210 miles to the equator/1,625mph, and 7,827 miles to the Tropic of Capricorn/2,049mph.

Or maybe just get an answer about it, because I never did.