Skylon hoax

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Thork

Skylon hoax
« on: December 16, 2012, 03:47:57 AM »
I normally dismiss space tourism as a cheap marketing trick. Its used to sell everything from burgers to airline tickets. But whilst adding to my extensive knowledge of this particular hoax, I stumbled across the business model of Skylon, and it made my blood boil.

Skylon, like all the others are promising space tourism. Its a $12billion project.

Well normally I wouldn't care, a fool and his money are soon parted. But I have just found out who is funding Skylon. The British taxpayer! >o<
I almost exploded as I unravelled this gravy train.

Skylon wiki page.

Bearing in mind they have been sucking at the taxpayer's teat since 1982
Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skylon_(spacecraft)
In January 2011, REL submitted a proposal to the British Government to request additional funding for the Skylon project and in April REL announced that they had secured $350 million of further funding contingent on a test of the engine's precooler technology being successful. Testing of the key technologies was successfully completed in November 2012, allowing Skylon's design to advance to its final phase.

At a time when we have massive government debts and are shutting schools and hospitals! This is disgusting!

What do the experts say about Skylon?


If ever you asked "why would they want to fake space travel" here is a direct example. The government and these space shysters are in league to steal $12billion from the public purse! >o<

I'm foaming at the mouth I'm so furious. I will be mounting an internet campaign to see Skylon shut down[nb]I have submitted an e-petition to http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk in order to see their funding slashed. It may take up to 7 days to process at which time I will post a link so you may add your voices..[/nb] Thoughts welcome.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 04:31:26 AM by Thork »

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2012, 03:56:54 AM »
This seems like one of the shoddier Conspiracy promos.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Thork

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2012, 04:08:56 AM »
I'll just leave this here for the likes of Markjo to read. Its very interesting.

http://www.spacenews.com/article/space-tourism-hoax#.UM25XaWyN5g

And look who wrote it!

Fredrick Engstrom was the director of launchers at the European Space Agency (ESA) from 1994 to 2001;
Heinz Pfeffer was the head of future launchers at ESA
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 04:10:31 AM by Thork »

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2012, 06:08:44 AM »
This is adsactly why flat earth theory is a threat to Society and future development of a species. You seek to Stifle scientific progress because of your sorly misplaced belief and misunderstanding in science! Shame on you mr cave man telling the other cave men not to leave the cave because nothing exist out their.

Notice they are developing an engin! Not a space plane! The engin will be put onto want ever necaserry. They also show designs for a Mach 5 aircraft soley ment for atmospheric flight around the GLOBE. Also if you dig a little deeper you can see that the heat exchanger they have already developed and already been proven to work has other applications including a many even more importantly in distillation of sea water into fresh water. Using the heat exchanger technology to decrease energy costs and thier for financial ones making it extremely benifical to much of humanity soley for that reason alone.

A project like this will help creat and secure highe paying engeniring positions aswell as manufacturing jobs though the construction of high end high value craft that will be the envy of the world. Should we instead focus on building bath plugs and poor quality children's toys like china?

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Thork

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2012, 06:14:26 AM »
Their engine doesn't work. If you go to their website and look at their explantion all you get under the "how does it work" section is



In other words, they aren't even trying to explain how this mythological technology works. Before you cry about how its an intellectual secret, we have something called patent law and if it is a unique design as they claim, then they will be legally protected.

What you have here is sham engineering sucking the government dry for grants.

We are shelling out billions on a heat exchanger? One that works because of a spiral shape and a super-confidential secret? Come on.

This is bullsh*t baffling brains.

And please note, the engine is only one of the projects they are claiming government money for. Others include Skylon and a mission to Mars! This is a disgusting abuse of public funds.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 06:20:42 AM by Thork »

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2012, 06:20:46 AM »
this is brilliant thork looks at a picture of the most advanced engine on the planet that has been proven in front of scientists and government official, has run over 100 times. but because thork looks at it and dsnt understand then it must not work. round of applause thork you must be the smartest person on the planet.

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Thork

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2012, 06:29:57 AM »
It doesn't matter to you that 2 members of the European Space agency have declared it an impossible spacecraft?

If this engine did what they said, don't you think the MoD would be funding it? That the likes of NASA and US intelligence would be all over it? And like the guy says, they have absolutely no competition? Not strike you as strange?

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2012, 06:38:43 AM »
interdependent review of the technology used conducted by outside but still expert sorces


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18784866

The Skylon/Sabre programme is being assessed by the European Space Agency (Esa). Its propulsion experts have been conducting a technical audit at the request of the UK Space Agency, to provide an independent view of the pre-cooler's capabilities and performance.

And the progress is being followed at the highest level within Esa.

and as for the funding

So far, only 15% of the funding to run the project has come from public sources; the rest has been private finance.

The company has now appointed a new chief executive, Tim Hayter.

One of his roles is to find the 250m needed to take Skylon/Sabre into its final design phase.

"We need to find investors or strategic partners with the vision and drive to see the long-term on this," he said.

"It's not going to be a quick turn-around [investment], but this is a disruptive technology that could turn launch vehicles on their head and we need people who can see that."

The prospect of some further UK government funding is not out of the question, either.

"We see this as predominantly a commercial project and it has already successfully raised money in the city," said Mr Willetts.



so thork as for you expertise in 400 megawat pre coolers can i see the scientific research you have conducted to prove it does not works? just because something is patented which i dont actulay know if this is it dsnt mean you post all the technical specifications all over the net.


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Thork

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2012, 06:48:37 AM »
Quote from: https://secure.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/28/reaction-engines-space-plane_n_2204389.html
"We are not going to tell you how this works," said the company's chief designer Richard Varvill, who started his career at the military engine division of Rolls-Royce. "It is our most closely guarded secret."

The company has deliberately avoided filing patents on its heat exchanger technology to avoid details of how it works - particularly the method for preventing the build-up of frost - becoming public.
wtf? No patents. On revolutionary technology? As the dragons say, "no patent, no product. I'm out". No one operates a private company like this.

"We are not going to tell you how it works"? We just have to trust them that it does? This is laughable.

If they filed a patent, experts would be able to see it doesn't work. This is the real reason. No patent? Its ridiculous. There is nothing to invest in. No more tax payer money for this. My e-petition is already being processed.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 06:52:16 AM by Thork »

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2012, 06:49:08 AM »
It doesn't matter to you that 2 members of the European Space agency have declared it an impossible spacecraft?

If this engine did what they said, don't you think the MoD would be funding it? That the likes of NASA and US intelligence would be all over it? And like the guy says, they have absolutely no competition? Not strike you as strange?


remember the inventor of the jet engine? Frank Whittle? he invented the jet engine far before the raf became interested. everybody told him it couldn't work because it was such a radical deviation from the norm. it wasn't until we we desperate in a time of war that anybody listened to him and gave him the funding.

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Thork

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2012, 06:50:24 AM »
It doesn't matter to you that 2 members of the European Space agency have declared it an impossible spacecraft?

If this engine did what they said, don't you think the MoD would be funding it? That the likes of NASA and US intelligence would be all over it? And like the guy says, they have absolutely no competition? Not strike you as strange?


remember the inventor of the jet engine? Frank Whittle? he invented the jet engine far before the raf became interested. everybody told him it couldn't work because it was such a radical deviation from the norm. it wasn't until we we desperate in a time of war that anybody listened to him and gave him the funding.

Do you remember the time when we invented the longbow? Its about as relevant.

Look at this case. It stinks.

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2012, 06:53:00 AM »
Quote from: https://secure.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/28/reaction-engines-space-plane_n_2204389.html
"We are not going to tell you how this works," said the company's chief designer Richard Varvill, who started his career at the military engine division of Rolls-Royce. "It is our most closely guarded secret."

The company has deliberately avoided filing patents on its heat exchanger technology to avoid details of how it works - particularly the method for preventing the build-up of frost - becoming public.
wtf? No patents. On revolutionary technology? As the dragons say, "no patent, no product. I'm out". No one operates a private company like this.

"We are not going to tell you how it works"? We just have to trust them that it does? This is laughable.



i never said it dosent i said i don't know if it does.    so where is your calculations that show it wont work becasue it has passed interdependent reviews saying that it does. so common prove your expertise. show me your evidence it does not work.


quote from ESA saying tech is viable

The technology, formally "signed off" by the European Space Agency in November as viable, will now be the subject of a 250 million ($400 million) investment drive, which Reaction Engines hopes will raise funds to develop a demonstrator.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/spaceplane-air-cooling-technology-could-revolutionise-aero-engines-379772/
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 06:58:03 AM by Pythagoras »

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2012, 06:53:58 AM »


 Also if you dig a little deeper you can see that the heat exchanger they have already developed and already been proven to work has other applications including a many even more importantly in distillation of sea water into fresh water. Using the heat exchanger technology to decrease energy costs and thier for financial ones making it extremely benifical to much of humanity soley for that reason alone.



Other applications may also be possible, he said, including a 15 per cent efficiency improvement in multi-stage flash (MSF) desalination, which is typically used to create drinking water in many Middle Eastern countries.

Read more: http://www.theengineer.co.uk/news/sabre-engine-passes-milestone-tests/1014783.article#ixzz2FE7j1I8o

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2012, 07:03:09 AM »
so because a few misguided people think the earth is flat tech that could revolutionize not just space travel but air travel and increase access to fresh water for poor countries plus countless other things that we cant foresee would be stifled. imagen where we would be now if you guys got your way. probably still using long bows as thork suggested because gun powder wouldn't be possible because they dont understand how it works so must be magic!

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Thork

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2012, 07:11:37 AM »
Quote from: https://secure.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/28/reaction-engines-space-plane_n_2204389.html
"We are not going to tell you how this works," said the company's chief designer Richard Varvill, who started his career at the military engine division of Rolls-Royce. "It is our most closely guarded secret."

The company has deliberately avoided filing patents on its heat exchanger technology to avoid details of how it works - particularly the method for preventing the build-up of frost - becoming public.
wtf? No patents. On revolutionary technology? As the dragons say, "no patent, no product. I'm out". No one operates a private company like this.

"We are not going to tell you how it works"? We just have to trust them that it does? This is laughable.



i never said it dosent i said i don't know if it does.    so where is your calculations that show it wont work becasue it has passed interdependent reviews saying that it does. so common prove your expertise. show me your evidence it does not work.
I nor anyone else can do anything to check. They are deliberately not telling anyone. Its ludicrous. What if someone else develops a similar technology and patents it? All that investment for nothing. The reason they haven't patented it is because there is nothing to patent.
No one invests in innovation without patents. No one at all.

The ESA seem to be in cahoots with them giving them ESA funding. (public money). It is retired ESA experts who are blowing the whistle. Those with nothing to gain.

I'm not alone in my suspicions. Science people are questioning this all over the internet.
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php/85589-british-rocketplane-by-2020/page2
^ They've all had a go at back of envelope calcs and they can't make it work. Can't even get close.

Quote from: http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php/85589-british-rocketplane-by-2020/page2
I was intrigued by the OP and progress reports in the previous posts so I actually did look at their site, the previously cited wiki article, all readily available info about the principals, and I ran a D&B on the company too. The bottom line is they are just a handful of smart guys with a grand vision, an apparently politically-related ESA contract, and a slick web site. I wish they would succeed with their grand vision, but it's just a CGI spaceplane - and that's probably all it will ever be.

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2012, 07:19:34 AM »
lol a retired ESA "expert" worker is the one questioning it? so he hasn't seen the research either? this is laughable.
who is this Expert? what are his credentials?

how many times do i have to say, it may very well have a patent i just don't know.

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MrT

  • 211
Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2012, 07:22:44 AM »
Thork, do you have links/sources for the two ESA people who said this technology couldn't work?  I read one of your links to an article from an ESA guy, but that was from years ago and not specifically about this technology, but simply about space tourism in general. 

It's an interesting situation. It would be great if the technology was real.  But it also wouldn't be the first time someone touted seemingly too good to be true tech to get funding, and nothing ever came from it.
The above is not meant to be an attack or inflammatory, it's just what I think.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
I don't understand

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MrT

  • 211
Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2012, 07:25:40 AM »
lol a retired ESA "expert" worker is the one questioning it? so he hasn't seen the research either? this is laughable.
who is this Expert? what are his credentials?

how many times do i have to say, it may very well have a patent i just don't know.

Thork's link to a story from the HuffPost was the one that said there were no patents, I believe.
The above is not meant to be an attack or inflammatory, it's just what I think.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
I don't understand

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2012, 07:25:49 AM »

Quote from: http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php/85589-british-rocketplane-by-2020/page2
I was intrigued by the OP and progress reports in the previous posts so I actually did look at their site, the previously cited wiki article, all readily available info about the principals, and I ran a D&B on the company too. The bottom line is they are just a handful of smart guys with a grand vision, an apparently politically-related ESA contract, and a slick web site. I wish they would succeed with their grand vision, but it's just a CGI spaceplane - and that's probably all it will ever be.
[/quote]


you know this quote is from 2010 2 years before they successfully tested the engine in front of cameras and interdependent experts right?

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Thork

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2012, 07:30:51 AM »
lol a retired ESA "expert" worker is the one questioning it? so he hasn't seen the research either? this is laughable.
who is this Expert? what are his credentials?


>:(

I told you already.
Fredrick Engstrom was the director of launchers at the European Space Agency (ESA) from 1994 to 2001;
Heinz Pfeffer was the head of future launchers at ESA

how many times do i have to say, it may very well have a patent i just don't know.
It doesn't have a patent. I already proved that!

Quote from: https://secure.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/28/reaction-engines-space-plane_n_2204389.html
"We are not going to tell you how this works," said the company's chief designer Richard Varvill, who started his career at the military engine division of Rolls-Royce. "It is our most closely guarded secret."

The company has deliberately avoided filing patents on its heat exchanger technology to avoid details of how it works - particularly the method for preventing the build-up of frost - becoming public.
wtf? No patents. On revolutionary technology? As the dragons say, "no patent, no product. I'm out". No one operates a private company like this.

"We are not going to tell you how it works"? We just have to trust them that it does? This is laughable.

If they filed a patent, experts would be able to see it doesn't work. This is the real reason. No patent? Its ridiculous. There is nothing to invest in. No more tax payer money for this. My e-petition is already being processed.

you know this quote is from 2010 2 years before they successfully tested the engine in front of cameras and interdependent experts right?
There has been no more information, no patents, no change of plans.

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MrT

  • 211
Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2012, 07:35:32 AM »
I don't pretend to be an expert on patent law, but I think some countries don't exactly enforce patents filed in other countries.  Could that be one plausible reason to hold off on a patent for this kind of technology?
The above is not meant to be an attack or inflammatory, it's just what I think.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
I don't understand

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2012, 07:37:13 AM »
he retired in 2001? are you kidding me? then what on earth would he know about this tech? he is your expert who dsnt know how it works? im not surprised that's decades in this field of research my granddad dsnt know how to work an Iphone but it does. but hay if you say so.

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2012, 07:39:37 AM »
I don't pretend to be an expert on patent law, but I think some countries don't exactly enforce patents filed in other countries.  Could that be one plausible reason to hold off on a patent for this kind of technology?

yes your adsactly right. china do it all the time. like i said before, even if its patented you still dont publish the adsact details of how it works because even these can give clues to other manufactures on how they can do it but different enough to get round patent laws.

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2012, 08:01:16 AM »
okey so i have done a small amount of research into your two sources. firstly one is not even a member of Esa any more and has no access to any of reaction engines research or demonstrations. they are also both biased against this kind of thing to begin with. they are dinosaurs who believe that only big government can maintain space opertatins. read a artical written by both of them. http://www.spacenews.com/article/space-tourism-hoax#.UM3uh2-6eSo

can i also point out that it is ironic that you are using people who believe the earth is a globe and also believe in and help/helped organize sustained space flight as a source for you argument against it. lol

can i also ask for the article where they say it wont work i believe they may have said it like you said just want to have a look myself.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2012, 08:03:26 AM by Pythagoras »

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2012, 08:01:28 AM »
the only way this great debate will ever be over, will come from more space travel.
Zetetics should embrace these companies, not ridicule them.
With more free thinking people in space, we will know its true shape. Planar.

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Thork

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2012, 08:03:09 AM »
can i also point out that it is ironic that you are using people who believe the earth is a globe and also believe in and help/helped organize sustained space flight as a source for you argument against it. lol
I'm using experts in space travel to prove that space tourism is a hoax. From the horse's mouth as one would say.

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2012, 08:20:30 AM »
they are not experts in space tourism. they are experts in big governmental run agency that use huge old tech rockets from 11 years ago. they didn't even see the skylon research or test because they didn't even work for ESA when ESA said the tech was viable. so they have seen the same pictures and same vids you have,nothing more.

can i please see where they say skylon wont work please as well.

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Thork

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #27 on: December 16, 2012, 08:28:13 AM »
can i please see where they say skylon wont work please as well.
>:( Its in the OP!

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #28 on: December 16, 2012, 08:32:02 AM »
Skylon isn't any more of a hoax than the Concorde was.  They're both extremely challenging aerospace engineering projects.  Skylon, or something like it, will inevitably be made real, it's just a matter of time.  Right now they're dealing with some hugely challenging thermal designs, and will have to work out a number of shockwave issues (among a host of other problems, I'm not an engine expert, I work on satellites mostly) as well.  They will, or someone like them will.  SSTO spaceflight is necessary and inevitable.

Keep in mind that many "experts" deemed supersonic flight impossible until it was done.  Then they moved onto something else.  It's far too often that an "expert" is someone who only knows how not to do something

Re: Skylon hoax
« Reply #29 on: December 16, 2012, 08:32:57 AM »
can i please see where they say skylon wont work please as well.
>:( Its in the OP!

i may be wrong but where do they mention skylon in that article?