'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'

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17 November

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'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« on: October 08, 2012, 09:14:24 PM »
'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
By Nemere Istvan
(In Hungarian Language)
Nemere István - Gagarin

Yuri Gagarin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin

This book is a refutation of Soviet space propaganda by the Hungarian writer Nemere Istvan. 
It shows that the famous space flight of Yuri Gagarin, the so-called first man in space - was a hoax.

Nemere Istvan Website
http://nemere.hu/
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 03:39:14 PM by 17 November »

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17 November

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2012, 12:31:12 PM »
Taken From:  http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/gagarin.htm

Soviet Cosmonaut Yuri Gagarin Was Never in Space

A Soviet propaganda hoax has been revealed in the former communist countries (for example Hungary, Estonia and Poland). It was a myth that everyone had really believed in, that the Soviet Air Force officer Yuri Gagarin had made a space-flight. Many Western governments were aware of this Soviet bluff but did not want to reveal the truth. It was not intended for the people to know that the Soviet Union was a backward state.

One interesting book about this is "Gagarin: A Cosmic Lie" ("Gagarin - kozmikus hazugsig," Budapest, 1990) by the Hungarian journalist Istvin Nemere. Not one word about the contradictions surrounding Gagarin's "journey into space" have been published in Sweden, where the Soviet Union is still regarded with a great deal of respect. Such a revelation would be far too embarrassing.

Until 1961, the United States had managed to send up 42 satellites, the Soviet Union only 12. The United States also informed the world that Alan Shepard would make a space journey in the spacecraft Freedom 7 on 5 May, 1961.

The Soviet Union was forced to do something to save face. For this reason a Soviet cosmonaut, Vladimir Ilyushin, was sent up into space on 7 April, 1961. The Americans intercepted several radio communications between him and the space centre in the Soviet Union. Ilyushin's landing failed and he was seriously injured. He could not be shown to the public. It was claimed that he had been injured in a car accident. He was sent to China to receive better medical treatment.

The Russian TV documentary "Cosmonaut Cover-Up" (2001) also claims that on 7 April, 1961, Vladimir Ilyushin left for space, got into trouble during the first orbit, and crash-landed in China during the third orbit. Ilyushin was badly injured. He was returned to the Soviet Union a year later. Ilyushin was killed in an engineered car accident in 1961.

The Soviet Union did not have a spare capsule at that time and in Moscow it was decided to orchestrate a huge bluff, a cosmic lie.

Radio Moscow claimed that a Soviet cosmonaut, Yuri Gagarin, had been sent up into space on the morning of 12 April, 1961 with the space-rocket Mostok. According to the official announcement, he had already landed and was in fine health. The whole world believed this except for the Western intelligence services. They had not managed to register any radio communication between Gagarin and the space centre.

This hoax was sloppily orchestrated. Polish newspapers announced already on the morning of 12 April that a Soviet cosmonaut had been in space. Newspapers in other countries did not report Gagarin's flight until 13 April.

In a book written for the West, Soviet propagandists claimed that simple peasants recognized Yuri Gagarin soon after he landed in a field and enthusiastically shouted: "Gagarin, Gagarin!" But nothing about his "space journey" had been reported at that time, no pictures of him had been published and his name had not been mentioned. The message from radio and TV was sent out 35 minutes after the alleged journey. Were the peasants psychic?

The newspaper Sovetskaya Rossiya claimed that Gagarin was wearing a blue flightsuit when he landed. In his memoirs, Gagarin himself claimed he was dressed in an orange flightsuit.

At his press conference, Gagarin read from notes when he "related" his journey. During the press conference, he made several crucial mistakes. Gagarin stated that weightlessness was no problem. Everything seemed just normal. We now know that this is not the case. The cosmonaut German Titov, for example, had difficulties with his balance and had heart problems. American astronauts experienced similar symptoms.

Gagarin then made his most serious mistake, despite the fact that he was constantly assisted by experts, who often spoke about discoveries in space. He said: "Then I saw South America".

This is impossible. At that time it was night in South America, which meant that it could not be seen at all. According to the official reports, Gagarin began his "space journey" at 9:07 Moscow time. He was supposed to have flown over South America at 9:22 Moscow time. In Chile, the time would have been 2:22, in Brazil 3:22. He could never have reached South America in 15 minutes. For other cosmonauts it took 45 minutes.

Foreign journalists wondered: "When will the photographs that Gagarin took in space be published?" Gagarin was silent, thought for a moment and answered: "I didn't have a camera with me!"

Even unmanned Soviet space probes had photographic equipment on board. It would have been an important propaganda triumph to publish Gagarin's pictures from space. The Soviet Union would never have missed an opportunity like that. Shepard's pictures were cabled out immediately. Parts of his flight were also shown on TV.

At the press conference, it was never explained whether Gagarin landed in his capsule or was ejected. If he had used the catapult seat, he would have become several centimetres shorter. This could easily have been ascertained. All pilots who have catapulted have become somewhat shorter as a result of spinal deformation.

When Gagarin wanted to travel in space for real in 1968, he was disposed of, according to Istvin Nemere. His plane exploded on 27 March the same year. The official report concerning this event contained many contradictions. The report was classified during the communist period. It claimed that there was not much left of Gagarin's body after the crash. In that case, how did his flightsuit come to land in the top of a tree?

There are far too many questions surrounding Gagarin's spaceflight in April 1961. A British team of researchers who questions the propaganda surrounding manned journeys to the moon also confirms this information. When will the truth be admitted officially?

On 12 April 2001, the Russian senior engineer Mikhail Rudenko, at the Experimental Design Office 456, in Khimki in the Moscow region, admitted in Pravda that three cosmonauts had died in space before Gagarin was sent up, namely Alexei Ledovskikh (1957), Serenti Zhaborin (February 1958), and Andrei Mitkov (flight attempt January 1959).

The Russian journalist and cosmonaut candidate (June 1965) Yaroslav Golovanov (1932-2003) wrote in his book "Cosmonaut One" that on 10 November 1960, another cosmonaut, Byelokonyev, also died on board a space-ship in orbit. Several sources reveal that 7-11 cosmonauts have died in orbit before Gagarin.

The CIA knew about the Gagarin bluff but said nothing. Instead they have come up with more and more ridiculous lies themselves. (Juri Lina, Architects of Deception. The Concealed History of Freemasonry. Referent Publishing Stockholm, 2004. p. 26-29).

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Ski

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2012, 03:45:11 PM »
Interesting.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Mr Pseudonym

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2012, 04:45:46 PM »
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2012, 04:47:12 PM »
I have to agree, this is very interesting.
Quote
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Daguerrohype

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 06:54:01 AM »
I appreciate this is an old thread but it is an interesting one. 17 November do you know of any source other than biblebelievers to corroborate Ilyushin having been killed in 1961? Preliminary enquiries suggest he died in 2010, aged 82.
Don't believe the hype

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2013, 04:33:39 PM »
Interesting.
Definitely one of the better hoax-theories out there.
Far better than NASA's fake Apollo missions.
I don't suffer from schizophrenia and neither do I,

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17 November

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2013, 06:20:55 PM »
17 November do you know of any source other than biblebelievers to corroborate Ilyushin having been killed in 1961? Preliminary enquiries suggest he died in 2010, aged 82.
Good observation. 
This claim that Ilyushin died back in 1961 contradicts his appearance in the documentaries in recent years.  This unsupported and disingenuous claim is likely a discrepancy on the part of Juri Lina, the article's author.

In spite of its value, the documentary also includes a discrepancy:  an astute critic remarked that the interview of Nikita Khruschev's son Sergei Khruschev adds nothing of value.  Indeed, Sergei Khruschev explicitly scorns the interviewer's idea that the space program included fakery.   
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1820/1

As you seem to have read, a British communist writer for the London Daily Worker named Dennis Ogden was the chief source for the alternative Ilyushin story, and Ogden resided in the same Moscow apartment building as cosmonaut Vladimir Ilyushin. 

The Vladimir Ilyushin and Yuri Gagarin stories prove that Soviet space history includes a publicized version and a secret version.  This episode tends to corroborate Albanian Premier Enver Hoxha's findings that Khruschev era Soviet scientists kept two sets of books (public and secret) with conflicting data for the same operations.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In spite of their tendency to not question american claims,
three of the more informative writers questioning official Soviet and Russian aerospace history are:

1) James Oberg  (latter part of cold war to current)
http://www.jamesoberg.com
http://www.amazon.com/Cold-War-Space-Sleuths-Exploration/dp/1461430518

2) Asif Siddiqi
'The Rockets Red Glare: Spaceflight and the Russian Imagination, 1857-1957'
http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/history/twentieth-century-regional-history/red-rockets-glare-spaceflight-and-russian-imagination-18571957

'Rockets Red Glare' is to Russia what Howard McCurdy's Space and the American Imagination is to the US.
It is a history of Russian science fiction and Soviet atheist cultural propaganda related to the Russian aerospace from the nineteenth century to Sputnik.  It's contents have much in common with Bernice Rosenthal's history of Soviet occultism:
'New Myth, New World: From Nietzsche to Stalinism'
http://www.psupress.org/books/titles/0-271-02218-3.html

3) Lloyd Mallan
Mallan wrote several mainstream albeit informative books about the US aerospace industry in the mid-twentieth century
such as 'Men, Rockets, and Space Rats', but the book that most distinguishes Mallan is:

'Russia's Space Hoax'  (1966)
http://www.amazon.com/Russias-space-hoax-Documented-mechanics/dp/B0007ELCD8

Cited by Bill Kaysing in his 1970s classic 'We Never Went to the Moon', 'Russia's Space Hoax' is a rebuttal of most of the Soviet Union's claims about its space achievements in the 1950's and 1960's when it was widely thought to be superior to the US in space. 
Its two principle arguments are as follows:

a) No Soviet space flights were ever manned including those of Gagarin and his successor Gherman Titov.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gherman_Titov
Since no non-Soviets witnessed any of the launches or landings of these alleged spaceships, transmissions of the cosmonauts' voices to receiving stations on earth are the main tangible evidence that Yuri Gagarin, Gherman Titov, or any other Soviets ever went to space.  Mallan said that Soviet spaceships were in fact unmanned satellites, and broadcasts of Gherman Titov speaking were prerecorded transmissions which explains why his messages were limited to things like greetings and lacked any technical details.  He gives evidence that throughout the world (up to 1966), transmissions from Soviet space flights had only been received exclusively at a few select receiving stations in two small corridors in western Europe and the northeastern United States.  He gives details that no other radio operators anywhere in the world ever picked up transmissions from Soviet cosmonauts including investigations of foreign countries and amateur radio clubs.     

b) The centrepeice of Mallan's book is a detailed analysis and refutation of man's alleged first space walk by cosmonaut Alexey Leonov in 1965.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexey_Leonov
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 12:41:29 AM by 17 November »

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17 November

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2014, 02:53:31 PM »
The era of satellites and increased space propaganda commenced with Sputnik in 1957. 

Significantly, Soviet space propaganda did not commence appreciably until after the deStalinization of the mid-1950's.  Sputnik immediately followed indicating that Soviet space propaganda was facilitated by Khruschev's political system and his ideological heirs (such as Gorbachev) - not the Stalinists.  (The same analysis might be applied to the difference between Roosevelt and his space age anti-communist successors.)

A managed media capable of persuading and prejudicing its audience's political and cultural opinions might also influence its scientific beliefs.   Therefore, knowledge gained from the perspective of old left Stalinists that is critical of post-Stalinist and post-Sputnik Russia can be useful for a critical perspective of the system which produced the space propaganda.  Such critical sources include:

Enver Hoxha, longtime leader of Stalinist Albania:
http://www.enverhoxha.info/english/books.php

The Espresso Stalinist
http://espressostalinist.com

The Stalin Society
http://www.stalinsociety.org.uk
http://www.stalinsociety.org.uk/presentations.html
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 07:23:40 AM by 17 November »

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Ski

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2014, 09:19:13 PM »
I'll have to dig up a quote from an associate of R.A. Wilson or Leary (may have Leary himself, actually) which mentions NASA testing a hallucinogen which caused the participants to believe they were floating. I've always wondered if this or something similar was used to suggest the experience to the astronauts themselves.

On a personal note, I hope life finds you well. Good to see your name pop up again.

"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Son of Orospu

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2014, 02:28:25 AM »
Ski, I believe you are referring to JB-118 or JB-II8.

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Ski

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2014, 02:34:24 PM »
Good memory! 

Quote from: The Man Who Turned on the World
One morning the telephone rang. It was a Dr. Steve Groff calling from Miami. As staff hypnotist with NASA he was interested in the use of psychedelic substances in connection with astronaut training. He had just come from the space centre and told me that all the astronauts had taken LSD to prepare themselves for weightlessness and disorientation due to the lack of external coordinates from which to take their bearing. Could he come to Millbrook for a session to see how we were administering LSD? Could he examine for himself our claim to have joyful experiences with LSD, a claim in direct contradiction to the results of sessions taken in clinical psychiatric surroundings?
 'Of course,' I said.
...
    The links made through Dr. Groff with NASA resulted in us obtaining some JB118, the space drug officially on the secrets list. Dick and I volunteered to try it and remarked that it looked as if we were becoming the guinea pigs for NASA and the CIA. We went to the recording room and when Dick sat down on the couch I took up the lotus position on the floor. We ingested the drug and waited for the slight change in body metabolism one associates with LSD. But wham ! ! ! ! This took effect instantly in the somatic sensory areas. I felt myself moving round the room in leaping acrobatic backward somersaults. I could not prevent this, yet I was not hitting any of the electronic equipment in the room. I was spinning round and round the centre of the room gliding past everything. I had the absolute conviction that I was in a small space capsule about the size of a tennis ball and that I had broken loose from the safety-belts.
    I felt alarmed and sensed a paranoic antipathy to whoever had been careless enough to put me in the capsule in such a dangerous way. Suddenly a door in the capsule opened and Whoosh ! ! ! ! I was sucked out and down towards the atmosphere, hurtling down an air corridor, free-falling, able to move any way but upwards. Observers said that all the time I was spreadeagled on the floor, lying on my stomach. But I remember a horrific sensation and suddenly there was a lurch and I stood up. It seemed a parachute had opened just a foot before I hit the earth's surface. Yet it had broken my fall.

Certainly interesting that the drug was administered by a hypnotist from NASA. I wonder what could be imprinted in someone's memory by means of hypnosis during such a trip.
"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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17 November

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2014, 05:43:30 PM »
Hello there, and thanks for the greetings. 

Enver Hoxha made a report about expelling Soviet geologists from his country circa 1960 because he found upon investigation that they used two sets of books:  one set had the truth which was sent to Moscow and kept secret while the the other with falsehoods was publicized.  This is described in his book on the Khruschevites whom Hoxha sees as crooked and apostates from the path of Lenin and Stalin. 

http://www.enverhoxha.info/english/books.php

Since the USSR under Khruschev began to use two sets of books for scientific matters dealing with geology and mining operations, it is logical to surmise they used two sets of books with regards to their space program as well.

Alhough Stalin had more admirers in past times including Albert Einstein and President Roosevelt, the communist civil rights leader and NAACP founder W.E.B. DuBois's opinions and eulogy of Stalin is the key that made me reassess my opinion of Stalin. 
This perspective of Stalin as a good guy I had never considered before, but it made sense of Trotsky's previous history as a German agent and the reason the German's financed him (instead of other Bolsheviks) in 1917.
On Stalin by W.E.B. DuBois
http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/biographies/1953/03/16.htm

Bill Bland, a British Marxist historian and Hoxhaist, especially helped to understand this process of history from a Stalinist perspective:
http://www.marxists.org/archive/bland/1999/x01/x01.htm
Bland also wrote 'The Restoration of Capitalism in the Soviet Union' which I mention here primarily to emphasize that in the big picture the trends of the propaganda have reflected political trends.  Asif Siddiqi writes in 'The Rockets Red Glare: Spaceflight and the Russian Imagination, 1857-1957' that Russian myths about space travel existed in occult literature in the time of the czars, and Khruschev's space program revived these myths.  Significantly, Bland views the Stalinists as a minority within the USSR even before Stalin's death. 

The american agents and scientists who infiltrated the Soviet system helps to explain why NASA and the Soviet space programs began and progressed simultaneously beginning circa 1957 and 1958.  It is not unreasonable to investigate the possibility that the Soviet space program was manipualted or directed in collusion with NASA.   The Stalinists were removed from power before it began.

Stalinists and Hoxha always viewed Tito and Yugoslavia as spies for the west just as they viewed Trotsky.
If the Stalinist perspective on Tito is correct, then it helps explain why Yugoslavia supported NASA and the american space program as depicted in the documentary
'Houston, We Have a Problem":

#" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">#

'From Trotsky to Tito'
By James Klugmann
http://espressostalinist.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/from-trotsky-to-tito.pdf
« Last Edit: May 10, 2014, 08:38:32 PM by 17 November »

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17 November

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2014, 08:27:08 PM »
Enver Hoxha made a report about expelling Soviet geologists from his country circa 1960 because he found upon investigation that they used two sets of books:  one set had the truth which was sent to Moscow and kept secret while the the other with falsehoods was publicized.  This is described in his book on the Khruschevites whom Hoxha sees as crooked and apostates from the path of Lenin and Stalin. 
...
Since the USSR under Khruschev began to use two sets of books for scientific matters dealing with geology and mining operations, it is logical to surmise they used two sets of books with regards to their space program as well.

The passage appears in Enver Hoxha's book on 'The Superpowers':

"WEDNESDAY MARCH 30,1960

OUR SUSPICIONS ABOUT THE IMPROPER WORK OF THE SOVIET GEOLOGISTS ARE CONFIRMED

From the talk about oil geology, which I had with two of our oil geologists from the Ministry of Mines, my suspicions are confirmed that the groups of Soviet geologists are not in order in their work; they operate according to their own ideas, and they do not give satisfactory results. But there is no check-up from our side, either. The fields and points which they present for drilling and prospecting do not yield oil. (As Comrade Enver Hoxha writes, "These oil experts, and 'geologists' made two reports: an accurate one, with exact and positive data on discoveries of different minerals, and a false one, which said that the prospecting had allegedly yielded negative results, i.e., the minerals sought were not discovered. The first report was sent to Moscow and Leningrad through the KGB centre, which was called the Soviet Embassy in Tirana. and the second report was sent to our Ministry of Industry and Mines. This whole vile business was discovered and proved after the Soviets cleared out of Albanian" (Enver Hoxha, The Khrushchevites (Memoirs), 2nd Eng. ed., ."8 Nentori" Publishing House, Tirana, 1984. p. 379.)) Their activities are not accidental, therefore, we cannot permit such a situation to continue any longer. I discussed this very serious problem with Comrades Spiro Koleka and Adil Çarçani. I also summoned ambassador Ivanov and told him my ideas bluntly. I instructed Spiro to present this problem openly to Kosygin when he goes to Moscow shoud exercise control over the work of the Soviet geologist. However, we, too, must step up our control on the activity of the group of Soviet geologist."

from 'The Superpowers'
By Enver Hoxha
http://archive.250x.com/hoxha/english/superpowers1.html

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17 November

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2014, 01:52:59 AM »
Good memory! 

Quote from: The Man Who Turned on the World
One morning the telephone rang. It was a Dr. Steve Groff calling from Miami. As staff hypnotist with NASA he was interested in the use of psychedelic substances in connection with astronaut training. He had just come from the space centre and told me that all the astronauts had taken LSD to prepare themselves for weightlessness and disorientation due to the lack of external coordinates from which to take their bearing. Could he come to Millbrook for a session to see how we were administering LSD? Could he examine for himself our claim to have joyful experiences with LSD, a claim in direct contradiction to the results of sessions taken in clinical psychiatric surroundings?
 'Of course,' I said.
...
    The links made through Dr. Groff with NASA resulted in us obtaining some JB118, the space drug officially on the secrets list. Dick and I volunteered to try it and remarked that it looked as if we were becoming the guinea pigs for NASA and the CIA. We went to the recording room and when Dick sat down on the couch I took up the lotus position on the floor. We ingested the drug and waited for the slight change in body metabolism one associates with LSD. But wham ! ! ! ! This took effect instantly in the somatic sensory areas. I felt myself moving round the room in leaping acrobatic backward somersaults. I could not prevent this, yet I was not hitting any of the electronic equipment in the room. I was spinning round and round the centre of the room gliding past everything. I had the absolute conviction that I was in a small space capsule about the size of a tennis ball and that I had broken loose from the safety-belts.
    I felt alarmed and sensed a paranoic antipathy to whoever had been careless enough to put me in the capsule in such a dangerous way. Suddenly a door in the capsule opened and Whoosh ! ! ! ! I was sucked out and down towards the atmosphere, hurtling down an air corridor, free-falling, able to move any way but upwards. Observers said that all the time I was spreadeagled on the floor, lying on my stomach. But I remember a horrific sensation and suddenly there was a lurch and I stood up. It seemed a parachute had opened just a foot before I hit the earth's surface. Yet it had broken my fall.

Certainly interesting that the drug was administered by a hypnotist from NASA. I wonder what could be imprinted in someone's memory by means of hypnosis during such a trip.

'The Man Who Turned on the World'
by Michael Hollingshead
http://www.psychedelic-library.org/hollings.htm

A fitting companion book might be 'The Search For the Manchurian Candidate: The CIA and Mind Control' by John Marks which tells the history of how LSD was created and spread by the CIA from the 1940's onwards and which includes ample information about Timothy Leary's work for the CIA. 
http://lilleprinsforlag.com/The%20Search%20for%20the%20Manchurian%20Candidate.pdf

Peter Reddaway is the widely acknowledged authority on Soviet psychiatric abuse, and he is more objective than most anti-communist writers.  I recall noticing articles by Reddaway in the 1970's exposing and protesting the American Psychiatric Association's encouragement of malicious psychiatry in the Soviet Union!  I'll try to dig up the article.

Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2014, 10:40:15 PM »
Did the Jesuits know that space exploration was impossible?  Russia and the U.S. were faking so much in the early stages.  Why?  I'd like to believe that we all thought we could do what we wanted in science, and then eventually learned that we couldn't, so we faked it, but maybe it was different.  Maybe NASA was created to be a fraud since day one.

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17 November

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2014, 09:55:42 AM »
Did the Jesuits know that space exploration was impossible?

I do not know enough about the jesuits to answer that question, but I think it worth mentioning that Avro Manhattan is the authority whom I most trust concerning the vatican and its associated orders and institutions. 

Considering the vatican's historical successes in mass deception such as the Fatima cult in which "masses of Catholics came to believe that the sun had truly moved towards people in a zigzag course"(*) in Fatima, Portugal in 1917 merely because the pope said so, it is possible that NASA could have been a disciple of the vatican or the jesuits to a certain extent in the techniques of mass deception.  Space age propaganda began in the cold war when many americans shared an anti-communist ideology with the vatican and unquestioningly believed whatever their media told them.  The vatican's Fatima cult and NASA both have astronomical phenomena and an anti-Russian ideology in common, but I have not researched this for evidence of collaboration between the two. 

Avro Manhattan wrote the following in his 1952 book * 'Catholic Imperialism and World Freedom' (while Stalin was still alive):
"The Catholic Church and Communism ... find themselves at the two most extreme poles of the ideological warfare of the modern world:  the Catholic Church as the most conservative, irreformable world institution in existence, Communism as the most revolutionary, dynamic ideology as yet produced by man.
...
The most formidable, stubborn, and dangerous opponent to Communism, therefore, is the Catholic Church, while the best organized and most powerful opponent of the Catholic Church is Communism."


The Vatican befriended the Soviets after Khruschev took power as Avro Manhattan describes in his 1977 book
'The Vatican Moscow Alliance'.  It's worth noting that deStalinization cleared the way for Khruschev's friendship with the vatican which was anathema to his predecessorss.  It is even more revealing that Khruschev's alliance with the Vatican coincided exactly with his promotion of atheism and his witch hunt against religious traditionalism and space propaganda in the early 1960's.   Contrary to western anti-communist propaganda, these things did not characterize the Stalin era. 

Khruschev's Soviet Union opened the doors to influences which were anathema to Stalinists.  Based on these trends, I consider it highly likely that the whole Soviet space program and its lies was coordinated and perhaps fabricated in part by american institutions such as NASA and especially the CIA.  This theory needs more evidence, but the existence of joint Russian-american space ventures make it exceedingly likely. 

Avro Manhattan updated his 1977 book in 1985 with the 'Vatican-Moscow-Washington Alliance' in which he claimed that the Vatican still controls western civilization through its domination of the CIA which controls the United States:
http://zaidpub.com/2013/09/27/cia-dominated-by-vatican-reports-new-jersey-professor-investigating-it/

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17 November

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2014, 12:20:33 PM »
In spite of its public association with geocentrism, the vatican actually financed heliocentric propaganda in Russia since 1654 at which time the newly elected Patriarch Nikon of Moscow (under the pretense of returning to ancient Greek) disposed of Russia's ancient Slavonic liturgical books and adopted modern liturgies based on books recently written in Greek and printed by jesuit owned printing houses in Venice, Italy.  This set a trend which was continued and strengthened by Czar Peter a few years later when he westernized Russia. 

During Pascha (i.e. Passover, Easter), people had always marched around the outside of the Church clockwise in the same direction as the sun to symbolize the rotation of the sun (according to all the ancient liturgies).  Among many other changes, the new jesuit influenced liturgy reversed this ancient eastern Christian ritual to a counterclockwise direction to accord with the new astronomy of the west. 

These novelties created the greatest schism in the history of the Russian Church, and many of Russia's Old Believer Christians preserved the ancient traditions including flat earth belief and rejection of modern science.  They were more horribly persecuted by the Romanovs more than Muslims and even Jews.  They and sought refuge in areas like Siberia and far northern Russia and to a lesser extent Romania which were areas out of the Czars' immediate reach.  They befriended the enemies of the Czars such as the Ottomans (The Nekrasov Cossacks were Old Believer Christians and full Ottoman citizens who had tried to overthrow Peter Romanov). 
The chief Old Believer church is the Belo-Krinitsa hierarchy (over two million strong in Russia).
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://rpsc.ru/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dhttp://rpsc.ru/%26rlz%3D1C1TSNP_enUS577US583

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Orthodox_Old-Rite_Church

This history was chronicled by Feodor Melnikov from the Old believer (Belo Krinitsa) perspective who was jailed when it was first published circa 1912.  Krotov.info has an abridged version roughly translated courtesy of google:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://krotov.info/history/17/staroobr/melnikov.html&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dmelnikov%2Bkrotov.info%26rlz%3D1C1TSNP_enUS577US583%26es_sm%3D93 

The Nikonian church, conversely, became a pliable jesuit controlled servant of the corrupt Romanov czars.  This is the church anathematized communism in 1918, an act which was echoed years later by Hitler's ally Pius XII. 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One Old Believer family named the Lykovs (perhaps more) retreated to the wilderness of the Siberian taiga during a period of persecution by anti-Christian fanatics in the 1930's.  This family of Old Believer Christians was accidentally discovered in 1978 in the Siberian widerness.  They had no idea that World War II had taken place.   One daughter named Agafia Lykov still survives living independently in the wild hundreds of miles from civilization in old age.  She was born in the wilderness and knows survival and the cycles of the stars as taught by her father.  She continues the Christian prayers and traditions which her parents taught her.  She uses liturgical books which are well made and over 400 years old.  O great interest, Agafia curses science as soul destroying and evinces knowledge asserting that a great astronomical cycle takes 532 years.

Significantly, the Lykovs say that they believe and accept that satellites orbit overhead because they can see them in the sky, but they reject the moon landings as fake. 

Surviving in the Siberian Wilderness
#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Surviving in the Siberian Wilderness for 70 Years (Full Length)

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17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2014, 04:27:58 AM »
Khruschev's regime was founded on the lie that Stalin was a criminal which Khruschev asserted in his famous secret speech of 1956 which initiated the Hungarian counter-revolution and the deStalinization which in turn provided a political environment hospitable to lies including space propaganda.  The credibility of all of these myths and many others were facilitated by false accusations against Josef Stalin which were a foundational myth of the cold war.  This myth has most recently been refuted by the american scholar Grover Furr in:

'Khruschev Lied:  The Evidence That Every “Revelation” of Stalin’s (and Beria’s) Crimes in Nikita Khrushchev’s Infamous “Secret Speech” to the 20th Party Congress of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union on February 25, 1956, is Provably False'
http://www.erythrospress.com/store/furr.html

The news agencies of communist countries which never enacted any deStalinization including China, North Korea, and Albania never reported any moon landings in the late 1960's or early 1970's because the events were pure propaganda from america. 
'For 800 Million, Nothing New' St Petersburgh Times United Press International - 22 July 1969
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=888&dat=19690722&id=00pSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=2nsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2975,598163

Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2014, 03:55:48 AM »
Not only is the entirety of the space programs all faked, even nukes don't exist.  We are literally lied to every single day of our lives.  http://telly.com/1K7CZKO

Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2014, 03:44:45 PM »

 I don't buy any of the '60's-era spaceflight nonsense.

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Blacksmith

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Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2014, 07:00:56 PM »
"The CIA knew about the Gagarin bluff but said nothing. Instead they have come up with more and more ridiculous lies themselves. (Juri Lina, Architects of Deception. The Concealed History of Freemasonry. Referent Publishing Stockholm, 2004. p. 26-29)." You went full retard. Never go full retard. Good post, until it goes on to declare other space programs lies as well..
Tally Count of Every Piece of Evidence for a Flat Earth, Ever:

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17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1290
Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2014, 03:14:41 PM »
"The CIA knew about the Gagarin bluff but said nothing. Instead they have come up with more and more ridiculous lies themselves. (Juri Lina, Architects of Deception. The Concealed History of Freemasonry. Referent Publishing Stockholm, 2004. p. 26-29)." You went full retard. Never go full retard. Good post, until it goes on to declare other space programs lies as well.


Please do make a distinction between myself and the people whom I quote.  A specific passage written by Juri Lina was quoted in full because it contains interesting material worth hearing.  That should not imply that I myself agree with every detail or every thing he believes.  As a matter of fact, I hardly concur with many of that particular writer's other contentions. In fact, I have already specifically pointed out problems with this same writer in a previous post in this thread.

As a matter of fact, Lloyd Malan's 1966 articles debunking the Soviet space program is interlaced between pages of anti-communist rhetoric. I combed it for the raw information which I summed up above.  This perspective unfortunately colored many analyses written during the heyday of the "space age." Another example is Gus Grissom's son who was convinced the Soviets were behind the Apollo I fire that killed his dad.

As for the CIA being in on the faking of the Soviet space program, the only way it would make sense is if they ran the whole country during that period or rather that the USSR became so capitalist under Khruhschev, Brezhnev, and Gorbachev that it collaborated with the US in everything of which space propaganda was but a small part.

American collaboration with the post-Stalinist USSR for the exploitation of the world is the theme of the 'The Superpowers' by Albanian premier Enver Hoxha who says the entire Cold War after Khruhschev came to power eventually consisted of cooperation between US and the USSR who publicly maintained the image of a Cold War after Stalin. Hoxha's book states that American propaganda demonizing Stalin was disseminated by Khruhschev which was used to disembowel the communist movement. Space propaganda was part of the cooperation which explains the phenomenon of joint space ventures the official American recognition of Soviet space propaganda as well as Soviet recognition of American moon landing propaganda. The Chinese, North Koreans, and Albanians did not acknowledge moon landings as the were outside the orbit of American influence - unlike the Soviet Union after Stalin.

"I know that after I die a pile of rubbish will be heaped on my grave, but sooner or later the judgment of history will sweep it away forever."
- Josef Stalin
« Last Edit: November 07, 2014, 09:39:42 AM by 17 November »

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17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1290
Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2014, 09:34:01 AM »
Succinctly stated, Enver Hoxha's position was that the Soviet space program was just the Soviet version of typical American bullshit made with American help and guidance. And Enver Hoxha often did in fact often use the word "bullshit" to characterize what many others took for reality.

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17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1290
Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2014, 11:36:02 PM »
It dawned on me that the Albanian government as late as 1991 denied the existence of both American and Soviet space travel.  Thus, the most informative debunkings of space travel propaganda written during the Cold War are likely by Cold War era Albanian writers.

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Lemmiwinks

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  • President of the Non-Conformist Zetetic Council
Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2014, 03:49:51 PM »
No one is going to address the fact that any Hungarian that lived through Soviet occupation would have a giant ax to grind and would and could be motivated based on that alone? Multiple sources on these claims would be more convincing.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

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Lemmiwinks

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  • President of the Non-Conformist Zetetic Council
Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2014, 03:52:14 PM »
It dawned on me that the Albanian government as late as 1991 denied the existence of both American and Soviet space travel.  Thus, the most informative debunkings of space travel propaganda written during the Cold War are likely by Cold War era Albanian writers.

To play the counter in this giant circle of people patting each other on the back for finding other people that agree with them.

What makes you think that the Albanians of all people would have the money, expertise, reach or even will to disprove or prove either the American or Soviet space programs?

Where are the sources, how are they vetted, what were their sources and most importantly wheres the proof.
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

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17 November

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 1290
Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2014, 10:27:24 PM »
What makes you think that the Albanians of all people would have the money, expertise, reach or even will to disprove or prove either the American or Soviet space programs?

Where are the sources, how are they vetted, what were their sources and most importantly wheres the proof.
That last statement I made about Albania is based on several quotations by and about Enver Hoxha and Albania earlier in this thread. Instead of my repeating them, just read the posts.

The statement is not a challenge or argument. My research merely indicates that Hoxhaist Albania likely contains literature that would be of interest to users of this website - particularly anyone interested in literature that denies much of the space programs. I post this now in case anyone else is also interested in pursuing research in this direction or perhaps already knows some pertinent facts that would shed light on this.

If and when I discover more information from this domain, then I will likely post it. Although their focus is primarily political and social, many diverse countries have had Hoxhaist communist parties which have published journals for decades. Of all leftist publications, the Hoxhaists are the most likely venue to contain literature which questions and confutes the official science of the USA and USSR rather than meekly accept it.

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Lemmiwinks

  • 2107
  • President of the Non-Conformist Zetetic Council
Re: 'Yuri Gagarin, A Cosmic Lie'
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2014, 04:57:44 PM »
What makes you think that the Albanians of all people would have the money, expertise, reach or even will to disprove or prove either the American or Soviet space programs?

Where are the sources, how are they vetted, what were their sources and most importantly wheres the proof.

 ...the Hoxhaists are the most likely venue to contain literature which questions and confutes the official science of the USA and USSR rather than meekly accept it.

Maybe you didnt mean it this way, but understanding math and science and then using those tools to independently verify the science of the USA and USSR does not equal "meekly accept[ing] it".

It actually means that I am the one really questioning the system, I am the one actually holding those in power accountable, because I learned the rules and tools to do it on my own, verify-ably and unquestionably. Trigonometry and Calculus are worth any number of shadowy back room sources with hearsay and conspiracy theories. Biology and Physics give you all of the power, and all of the tools to tear down the lies that those in power may put up.

Not some Albanian or Hungarian with political axes to grind.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 05:02:55 PM by Lemmiwinks »
I have 13 [academic qualifications] actually. I'll leave it up to you to guess which, or simply call me a  liar. Either is fine.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur