Poll

How many members does the Conspiracy have?

10 or less
11-50
50-100
100-1000
More than 1000
More than 5000

How many people are in The Conspiracy?

  • 97 Replies
  • 15265 Views
*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17933
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2012, 07:57:04 AM »
Former FES president Samuel Shenton provided some telescopic images of restored coastlines in his day. It might be in Daniel's archive.

Observing half-sunken ships is not trivial to photograph. You have to be in the right time and the right place with the right equipment - an appropriate telescope, camera mount, and camera... not something anyone can just do by walking down to the shoreline. Doing this will require more patience than the average person can handle. Even then, often times the ship just fades out before doing anything. It's also mentioned in the Flat Earth texts that a calm lake provides better demonstration of the effect.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 08:12:20 AM by Tom Bishop »

Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #61 on: May 02, 2012, 08:00:05 AM »
Except that ships hidden by the horizon aren't restored when looked at with magnification.  Just a tiny problem with Rowbotham's work there.

Ships have been documented to have been restored in Earth Not a Globe, Zetetic Cosmogony, and Cellular Cosmogony, one of which isn't even a Flat Earth book.

See the above link for references.


Pertinent photographs - from this very forum in fact - provide evidence that ships have not been restored at higher magnifications.

Here is a link to one applicable thread that you must have missed in your research -

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=50707.0

And one of the photo's in question -



/hattip to forum user momentia for putting forth the effort to provide a side by side comparison.

Further discussion of this matter in this thread would constitute a derail so if you wish to continue this you should start a new thread per the forum rules.

edit: spelling.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 08:05:11 AM by Kendrick »

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17933
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #62 on: May 02, 2012, 08:07:14 AM »
Except that ships hidden by the horizon aren't restored when looked at with magnification.  Just a tiny problem with Rowbotham's work there.

Ships have been documented to have been restored in Earth Not a Globe, Zetetic Cosmogony, and Cellular Cosmogony, one of which isn't even a Flat Earth book.

See the above link for references.


Pertinent photographs - from this very forum in fact - provide evidence that ships have not been restored at higher magnifications.

Here is a link to one applicable thread that you must have missed in your research -

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=50707.0

And one of the photo's in question -

http://i56.tinypic.com/2ut3kly.png

/hattip to forum user momentia for putting forth the effor to provide side by side comparison.

Further discussion of this matter in this thread would constitute a derail so if you wish to continue this you should start a new thread per the forum rules.

edit: spelling.

Firstly, 28x isn't the magnification of a telescope, it's more a magnification of a pair of binoculars. Mid and high end telescopes have a magnification ratio of 200x - 500x.

Secondly, Rowbotham says that the perspective restore effect is inconsistent on an ocean. It is better demonstrated on a calm lake, which this was not taken on.

Thirdly, see Thork's answer starting from the second post of that thread. Rowbotham agrees with Thork's explanation.

So no, this does not meet the criteria at all.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 08:18:54 AM by Tom Bishop »

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17933
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #63 on: May 02, 2012, 09:13:50 AM »
Getting back to the topic..

5000 isn't a very big number on a global scale.

5000 is quite a big number for a global scale, seeing as the earth is not a globe.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42529
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #64 on: May 02, 2012, 09:41:42 AM »
Observing half-sunken ships is not trivial to photograph. You have to be in the right time and the right place with the right equipment - an appropriate telescope, camera mount, and camera... not something anyone can just do by walking down to the shoreline. Doing this will require more patience than the average person can handle. Even then, often times the ship just fades out before doing anything. It's also mentioned in the Flat Earth texts that a calm lake provides better demonstration of the effect.

I'm not talking about the average person because the average person thinks that the earth is round.  I'm talking about a dedicated FE'er who is willing to back his incredible claims with credible evidence.  Do you know where I might be able to find such a person?
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42529
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #65 on: May 02, 2012, 09:52:55 AM »
Firstly, 28x isn't the magnification of a telescope, it's more a magnification of a pair of binoculars. Mid and high end telescopes have a magnification ratio of 200x - 500x.

200x - 500x magnification is generally not appropriate for terrestrial observation.  Maritime telescopes are typically in the 8x-25x range.  However, since Rowbotahm never documented the magnification of telescopes that he used, we can only speculate as to what specific magnification he used.  Then again, since the function of any telescope is to "push back the lines of perspective", it would seem that even a modest level of magnification should exhibit at least some level of restoration.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17933
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #66 on: May 02, 2012, 10:03:06 AM »
Then again, since the function of any telescope is to "push back the lines of perspective", it would seem that even a modest level of magnification should exhibit at least some level of restoration.

Not when the hull is obscured by waves, as suggested in my third point above.

?

squevil

  • Official Member
  • 3184
  • Im Telling On You
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #67 on: May 02, 2012, 10:20:01 AM »
no tom that picture is a perfect example of your claims being proved false. even with the evidence pushed under your nose you still refuse to reason. well how about you show some pictures of it actually happening? cmon you did the experiment now show us actual results.

?

MrT

  • 211
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #68 on: May 02, 2012, 12:12:52 PM »


Firstly, 28x isn't the magnification of a telescope, it's more a magnification of a pair of binoculars. Mid and high end telescopes have a magnification ratio of 200x - 500x.


I have been researching telescopes quite a bit lately, and the only telescopes that will advertise a 200-500X magnification (without added eyepieces) are incredibly poor quality department store type telescopes which use a high magnification to imply quality.  High magnification without optical quality and light gathering ability to support it will not get you anything.

I was looking in the $500-$1500 range (certainly at least qualifies as mid, though high end telescopes can cost many thousands).  Many had only 20X-80X with the included eyepiece/s.  Also, many are rated at the highest useful magnification.  In other words, the point at which the image is getting so poor, that further magnification will result in diminishing returns.  Even some scopes well upwards of $2000 listed 300X-450X as the highest useful magnification.  And even in that case this would require expensive additional eyepieces, barlow lens magnification multipliers, etc.  I'm not saying a mid-high end telescope couldn't do 200X-500X, but to imply that simply because the magnification used was 28X this wasn't a telescope is ridiculous. 

Just as you can get eyepieces for higher magnification, you can get them for lower magnification as well.  Lower magnifications are good for wider fields of view, as well as for situations where a higher magnification would just be impractical, such as viewing boats in the above picture. 

I have several sets of binoculars, 8X, 10X, and one that is 16X.  I don't use the 16X much because the field of view is poor, the view is shakier, and that level of magnification just isn't really helpful very often vs. 8X or 10X.  28X sounds much more like spotting scope territory.
The above is not meant to be an attack or inflammatory, it's just what I think.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
I don't understand

Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #69 on: May 02, 2012, 01:34:51 PM »

Firstly, 28x isn't the magnification of a telescope, it's more a magnification of a pair of binoculars.

Binoculars are two small telescopes next to each other. Just like a spyglass is a telescope. Seriously, what does this guy do for a living? Let's hope it's nothing more taxing than working in a garden center or drive-thru.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42529
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #70 on: May 02, 2012, 05:37:57 PM »
Then again, since the function of any telescope is to "push back the lines of perspective", it would seem that even a modest level of magnification should exhibit at least some level of restoration.

Not when the hull is obscured by waves, as suggested in my third point above.

The waves would need to be pretty significant in order to obscure a ship's hull.  The photos in your link show relatively calm waters.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

squevil

  • Official Member
  • 3184
  • Im Telling On You
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #71 on: May 02, 2012, 08:34:54 PM »
Then again, since the function of any telescope is to "push back the lines of perspective", it would seem that even a modest level of magnification should exhibit at least some level of restoration.

Not when the hull is obscured by waves, as suggested in my third point above.

The waves would need to be pretty significant in order to obscure a ship's hull.  The photos in your link show relatively calm waters.

he knows, TB just likes to still argue for FET. its a hobby of his

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17933
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #72 on: May 02, 2012, 11:38:14 PM »
Then again, since the function of any telescope is to "push back the lines of perspective", it would seem that even a modest level of magnification should exhibit at least some level of restoration.

Not when the hull is obscured by waves, as suggested in my third point above.

The waves would need to be pretty significant in order to obscure a ship's hull.  The photos in your link show relatively calm waters.

According to Admiral Coupvent de Bois in fair weather the average wave height is over 3 feet.

3 feet of waves on the horizon can obscure 20 feet of hull behind it, just as a dime can obscure an elephant.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 11:40:24 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #73 on: May 03, 2012, 03:02:18 AM »
Then again, since the function of any telescope is to "push back the lines of perspective", it would seem that even a modest level of magnification should exhibit at least some level of restoration.

Not when the hull is obscured by waves, as suggested in my third point above.

The waves would need to be pretty significant in order to obscure a ship's hull.  The photos in your link show relatively calm waters.

According to Admiral Coupvent de Bois in fair weather the average wave height is over 3 feet.

3 feet of waves on the horizon can obscure 20 feet of hull behind it, just as a dime can obscure an elephant.

But as soon as you get about 6 feet of altitude, 3 feet of waves isn't obscuring jack sh*t.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42529
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #74 on: May 03, 2012, 05:28:02 AM »
Then again, since the function of any telescope is to "push back the lines of perspective", it would seem that even a modest level of magnification should exhibit at least some level of restoration.

Not when the hull is obscured by waves, as suggested in my third point above.

The waves would need to be pretty significant in order to obscure a ship's hull.  The photos in your link show relatively calm waters.

According to Admiral Coupvent de Bois in fair weather the average wave height is over 3 feet.

3 feet of waves on the horizon can obscure 20 feet of hull behind it, just as a dime can obscure an elephant.

???  How can a ship be behind the horizon on a flat earth? 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 06:40:15 AM by markjo »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

*

Moon squirter

  • 1405
  • Ding dong!
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #75 on: May 03, 2012, 06:31:10 AM »
Then again, since the function of any telescope is to "push back the lines of perspective", it would seem that even a modest level of magnification should exhibit at least some level of restoration.

Not when the hull is obscured by waves, as suggested in my third point above.

The waves would need to be pretty significant in order to obscure a ship's hull.  The photos in your link show relatively calm waters.

According to Admiral Coupvent de Bois in fair weather the average wave height is over 3 feet.

3 feet of waves on the horizon can obscure 20 feet of hull behind it, just as a dime can obscure an elephant.

...but only if you were under 3 feet from the ground.  Otherwise you would be able to look partially or fully over the top of the wave, revealing more of the hull.

Tom, you have never "got" the mathematics of perspective, and after all these years I don't think you will.   Feel free to draw a diagram.
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

*

Username

  • Administrator
  • 17670
  • President of The Flat Earth Society
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #76 on: May 03, 2012, 07:03:15 AM »
Then again, since the function of any telescope is to "push back the lines of perspective", it would seem that even a modest level of magnification should exhibit at least some level of restoration.

Not when the hull is obscured by waves, as suggested in my third point above.

The waves would need to be pretty significant in order to obscure a ship's hull.  The photos in your link show relatively calm waters.

According to Admiral Coupvent de Bois in fair weather the average wave height is over 3 feet.

3 feet of waves on the horizon can obscure 20 feet of hull behind it, just as a dime can obscure an elephant.

???  How can a ship be behind the horizon on a flat earth?
The horizon he is referring to, I assume, is the horizon caused by the perspective effect and, presumably, removed by use of magnification.
The illusion is shattered if we ask what goes on behind the scenes.

*

Pongo

  • Planar Moderator
  • 6758
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #77 on: May 03, 2012, 07:33:10 AM »
But 3 feet is only the average wave height.  Any one wave peaking 3.5 feet between you and the ship will obscure more of the hull.  The further the ship gets from you, the greater the chance of larger waves cresting between you and the ship and therefore making more and more of the hull looking "sunk".

Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #78 on: May 03, 2012, 07:50:47 AM »
what does the conspiracy myth have to do with waves obscuring boats?
wheres a moderator when you need one?
let's stay on topic for once.

?

MrT

  • 211
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #79 on: May 03, 2012, 08:11:50 AM »
Some say the conspiracy is only select, top members of NASA, etc.  However, due to the scope of things attributed to the conspiracy (or at least hinted as being the possible explanation), I would say the conspiracy would have to be so huge that I don't know what would be the point of keeping the shape of the Earth from every one else.
The above is not meant to be an attack or inflammatory, it's just what I think.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
I don't understand

Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #80 on: May 03, 2012, 08:28:35 AM »
thanks MrT for getting us back on track,
I agree, to pull of a secret so large, the mythical conpiracy would have to be massive. 
and because a massive conspiracy really would have nothing to gain,
then Zetetically, again, we must assume there is no conspiracy.
Nasa is just getting it wrong, and I dont blame them, if your are taught from Kindergarten that its a sphere, its a difficult thing to break.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17933
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #81 on: May 03, 2012, 09:16:12 AM »
Then again, since the function of any telescope is to "push back the lines of perspective", it would seem that even a modest level of magnification should exhibit at least some level of restoration.

Not when the hull is obscured by waves, as suggested in my third point above.

The waves would need to be pretty significant in order to obscure a ship's hull.  The photos in your link show relatively calm waters.

According to Admiral Coupvent de Bois in fair weather the average wave height is over 3 feet.

3 feet of waves on the horizon can obscure 20 feet of hull behind it, just as a dime can obscure an elephant.

...but only if you were under 3 feet from the ground.  Otherwise you would be able to look partially or fully over the top of the wave, revealing more of the hull.

Tom, you have never "got" the mathematics of perspective, and after all these years I don't think you will.   Feel free to draw a diagram.

Perspective causes the lands and seas to ascend to eye level. Hence, a three foot increase creates an area for bodies to disappear behind, appearing to sink from the bottom up as they recede and shrink into the distance.

See the chapter Perspective at Sea for a diagram.

Quote from: Earth Not a Globe
That vessels, lighthouses, light-ships, buoys, signals, and other known and fixed objects are sometimes more distinctly seen than at other times, and are often, from the same common elevation, entirely out of sight when the sea is rough, cannot be denied or doubted by any one of experience in nautical matters.

The conclusion which such observations necessitate and force upon us is, that the law of perspective, which is everywhere visible on land, is modified when observed in connection with objects on or near the sea. But how modified? If the water were frozen and at perfect rest, any object on its surface would be seen again and again as often as it disappeared and as far as telescopic or magnifying power could be brought to bear upon it. But because this is not the case--because the water is always more or less in motion, not only of progression but of fluctuation and undulation, the "swells" and waves into which the surface is broken, operate to prevent the line of sight from passing absolutely parallel to the horizontal water line.

At page 60 it is shown that the surface of the sea appears to rise up to the level or altitude of the eye; and that at a certain distance, less or greater, according to the elevation of the observer, the line of sight and the surface of the water appear to converge to a "vanishing point," which is in reality "the horizon." If this horizon were formed by the apparent junction of two perfectly stationary parallel lines, it could, as before stated, be penetrated by a telescope of sufficient power to magnify at the distance, however great, to which any vessel had sailed. But because the surface of the sea is not stationary, the line of sight must pass over the horizon, or vanishing point, at an angle at the eye of the observer depending on the amount of "swell" in the water. This will be rendered clear by the following diagram, fig. 85.



Let C, D, represent the horizontal surface of the water. By the law of perspective operating without interference from any local cause, the surface will appear to ascend to the point B, which is the horizon, or vanishing point to the observer at A; but because the water undulates, the line A, B, of necessity becomes A, H, S, and the angular direction of this line becomes less or greater if the "swell" at H increases or diminishes. Hence when a ship has reached the point H, the horizon; the line of sight begins to cut the rigging higher and higher towards the mast-head, as the vessel more and more recedes. In such a position a telescope will enlarge and render more visible all that part of the rigging which is above the line A, H, S, but cannot possibly restore that part including the hull, which is below it. The waves at the point H, whatever their real magnitude may be, are magnified and rendered more obstructive by the very instrument (the telescope), which is employed to make the objects beyond more plainly visible; and thus the phenomenon is often very strikingly observed, that while a powerful telescope will render the sails and rigging of a ship beyond the horizon H, so distinct that the different kinds of rope can be readily distinguished, not the slightest portion of the hull, large and solid as it is, can be seen. The "crested waters" form a barrier to the horizontal line of sight as substantial as would the summit of an intervening rock. And because the watery barrier is magnified and practically increased by the telescope, the paradoxical condition arises, that the greater the power of the instrument the less can be seen with it.

Numerous examples are given earlier in the chapter which reinforce the above.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 09:32:10 AM by Tom Bishop »

?

squevil

  • Official Member
  • 3184
  • Im Telling On You
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #82 on: May 03, 2012, 09:54:25 AM »
but tom you dont agree to the whole book so why is it ok to pick parts that fit your ideas?

*

Moon squirter

  • 1405
  • Ding dong!
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #83 on: May 03, 2012, 10:10:22 AM »
Quote from: Earth Not a Globe
That vessels, lighthouses, light-ships, buoys, signals, and other known and fixed objects are sometimes more distinctly seen than at other times, and are often, from the same common elevation, entirely out of sight when the sea is rough, cannot be denied or doubted by any one of experience in nautical matters.

The conclusion which such observations necessitate and force upon us is, that the law of perspective, which is everywhere visible on land, is modified when observed in connection with objects on or near the sea. But how modified? If the water were frozen and at perfect rest, any object on its surface would be seen again and again as often as it disappeared and as far as telescopic or magnifying power could be brought to bear upon it. But because this is not the case--because the water is always more or less in motion, not only of progression but of fluctuation and undulation, the "swells" and waves into which the surface is broken, operate to prevent the line of sight from passing absolutely parallel to the horizontal water line.

At page 60 it is shown that the surface of the sea appears to rise up to the level or altitude of the eye; and that at a certain distance, less or greater, according to the elevation of the observer, the line of sight and the surface of the water appear to converge to a "vanishing point," which is in reality "the horizon." If this horizon were formed by the apparent junction of two perfectly stationary parallel lines, it could, as before stated, be penetrated by a telescope of sufficient power to magnify at the distance, however great, to which any vessel had sailed. But because the surface of the sea is not stationary, the line of sight must pass over the horizon, or vanishing point, at an angle at the eye of the observer depending on the amount of "swell" in the water. This will be rendered clear by the following diagram, fig. 85.



Let C, D, represent the horizontal surface of the water. By the law of perspective operating without interference from any local cause, the surface will appear to ascend to the point B, which is the horizon, or vanishing point to the observer at A; but because the water undulates, the line A, B, of necessity becomes A, H, S, and the angular direction of this line becomes less or greater if the "swell" at H increases or diminishes. Hence when a ship has reached the point H, the horizon; the line of sight begins to cut the rigging higher and higher towards the mast-head, as the vessel more and more recedes. In such a position a telescope will enlarge and render more visible all that part of the rigging which is above the line A, H, S, but cannot possibly restore that part including the hull, which is below it. The waves at the point H, whatever their real magnitude may be, are magnified and rendered more obstructive by the very instrument (the telescope), which is employed to make the objects beyond more plainly visible; and thus the phenomenon is often very strikingly observed, that while a powerful telescope will render the sails and rigging of a ship beyond the horizon H, so distinct that the different kinds of rope can be readily distinguished, not the slightest portion of the hull, large and solid as it is, can be seen. The "crested waters" form a barrier to the horizontal line of sight as substantial as would the summit of an intervening rock. And because the watery barrier is magnified and practically increased by the telescope, the paradoxical condition arises, that the greater the power of the instrument the less can be seen with it.

Tom, there is no maths behind it.  It's art perspective gone wrong.  It cannot possibly be right.  I know it.  You know it.

The last sentence sums of the wrongness of this reasoning.  In reality a telescope magnifies everything proportionally, it does not change any lines of sight.  Otherwise a telescopic gun sight would not work.

I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17933
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #84 on: May 03, 2012, 10:17:17 AM »
Quote from: squevil
but tom you dont agree to the whole book so why is it ok to pick parts that fit your ideas?

If you believe in Aristotle's three proofs, as is often parroted here as proof of the earth's rotundity, why don't you believe in his teachings that frogs and newts spontaneously generate from mud?

Your answer would be that knowledge was later discovered to contradict those teachings, just as our knowledge has progressed since the mid-1800's.

Tom, there is no maths behind it.  It's art perspective gone wrong.  It cannot possibly be right.  I know it.  You know it.

The last sentence sums of the wrongness of this reasoning.  In reality a telescope magnifies everything proportionally, it does not change any lines of sight.  Otherwise a telescopic gun sight would not work.

What makes you think it is wrong?

Hold out a dime at arms lengths to block a larger body further behind it. Now use a pair of glasses or magnifying glass to magnify the dime. Put the lens close to your face and move it towards the dime in your other hand. The lines of sight do change. The background squishes and expands without relation to the dime.

Telescopic gun sights work because the cross pointer is dead center. The point of dead center does not change with varying levels of magnification.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2012, 12:38:05 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #85 on: May 03, 2012, 11:07:20 AM »
The only way for the hull to disapear are for the waves to get bigger as you move away.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=46154.msg1145119#msg1145119

*

Tom Bishop

  • Flat Earth Believer
  • 17933
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #86 on: May 03, 2012, 11:08:14 AM »
The only way for the hull to disapear are for the waves to get bigger as you move away.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=46154.msg1145119#msg1145119

Perspective causes the lands and seas to ascend to eye level. Your illustration does not account for this.

*

markjo

  • Content Nazi
  • The Elder Ones
  • 42529
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #87 on: May 03, 2012, 11:20:00 AM »
The horizon he is referring to, I assume, is the horizon caused by the perspective effect and, presumably, removed by use of magnification.

You guys do realize that art school perspective assumes an infinite plane, flat earth model, don't you? 
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

?

MrT

  • 211
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #88 on: May 03, 2012, 11:56:03 AM »


Perspective causes the lands and seas to ascend to eye level. Your illustration does not account for this.

So the lands and seas raise to eye level (physically, not just by appearances due to perspective) but the ship stays the same level?

There is a new thread for this topic, maybe this shouldn't continue here, as it's not the topic of the thread.
The above is not meant to be an attack or inflammatory, it's just what I think.

Quote from: Tom Bishop
I don't understand

*

Moon squirter

  • 1405
  • Ding dong!
Re: How many people are in The Conspiracy?
« Reply #89 on: May 03, 2012, 12:03:03 PM »
Quote from: squevil
but tom you dont agree to the whole book so why is it ok to pick parts that fit your ideas?

If you believe in Aristotle's three proofs, as is often parroted here as proof of the earth's rotundity, why don't you believe in his ideas that frogs and newts spontaneously generate from mud?

Your answer would be that knowledge was later discovered to contradict those teachings, just as our knowledge has progressed since the mid-1800's.

Tom, there is no maths behind it.  It's art perspective gone wrong.  It cannot possibly be right.  I know it.  You know it.

The last sentence sums of the wrongness of this reasoning.  In reality a telescope magnifies everything proportionally, it does not change any lines of sight.  Otherwise a telescopic gun sight would not work.

What makes you think it is wrong?

Hold out a dime at arms lengths to block a larger body further behind it. Now use a pair of glasses or magnifying glass to magnify the dime. Put the lens close to your face and move it towards the dime in your other hand. The lines of sight do change. The background squishes and expands without relation to the dime.

Telescopic gun sights work because the cross pointer is dead center. The point of dead center does not change with varying levels of magnification.

I've just done this with a coin, magnifying glass and dinner plate at 4 metres. The dinner plate size does not change size in relation to the coin. However the focus does change.

The "point of dead centre" with Telescopic gun sights is crap.  You've just made that up because I've won the argument.
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.