UA violates laws of space and time

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jraffield1

• 697
UA violates laws of space and time
« on: October 17, 2011, 02:53:21 PM »
With my results I believe I have discredited the theory of UA...

There are many symmetries concerning space and time, and as summed up in Noether's theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noether%27s_theorem), each posits the existence of a conservation law. Conservation of linear momentum is a result of the translational invariance of space, conservation of energy comes from invariance in time, and angular momentum results from the rotational invariance of space.

Since we have never witnessed a breaking of these symmetries, Noether's theorem proves that the conservation laws are equally resolute. The first problem with UA is it violates the conservation of linear momentum. With UA, the momentum of the system (in this case the Universe) would be constantly increasing. The second problem with UA is that it violates the conservation of energy. With an ever accelerating Earth, the total energy in the Universe would increase without bound and would most certainly would not be constant.

The next bit doesn't pertain to the UA, but it represents another conservation law broken. In FET, the sun moves in a circle that changes its radius (and goes faster near the edge, and slower near the center), this would mean that the total angular momentum of the sun would not be constant and would violate the conservation of angular momentum.
You, sir, can't comprehend the idea of bottoms.

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Thork

Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2011, 02:59:11 PM »
UA violates laws of space and time

So do neutrinos.

Tausami

• Flat Earth Editor
• 6767
• Venerated Official of the High Zetetic Council
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2011, 03:05:44 PM »
With my results I believe I have discredited the theory of UA...

There are many symmetries concerning space and time, and as summed up in Noether's theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noether%27s_theorem), each posits the existence of a conservation law. Conservation of linear momentum is a result of the translational invariance of space, conservation of energy comes from invariance in time, and angular momentum results from the rotational invariance of space.

Since we have never witnessed a breaking of these symmetries, Noether's theorem proves that the conservation laws are equally resolute. The first problem with UA is it violates the conservation of linear momentum. With UA, the momentum of the system (in this case the Universe) would be constantly increasing. The second problem with UA is that it violates the conservation of energy. With an ever accelerating Earth, the total energy in the Universe would increase without bound and would most certainly would not be constant.

The next bit doesn't pertain to the UA, but it represents another conservation law broken. In FET, the sun moves in a circle that changes its radius (and goes faster near the edge, and slower near the center), this would mean that the total angular momentum of the sun would not be constant and would violate the conservation of angular momentum.

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CidTheKid

• 81
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2011, 03:11:07 PM »
UA violates laws of space and time

So do neutrinos.

Tausami

• Flat Earth Editor
• 6767
• Venerated Official of the High Zetetic Council
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2011, 03:14:05 PM »
UA violates laws of space and time

So do neutrinos.

Tachyonic neutrinos have been demonstrated to exist. We haven't said so for certain, but that's just because it doesn't really make sense.

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Thork

Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2011, 03:18:50 PM »
UA violates laws of space and time

So do neutrinos.

I haven't tested for myself so I can only use the best evidence available. That would be the results from Cern.
http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110922/full/news.2011.554.html

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EmperorZhark

• 2229
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2011, 03:20:57 PM »
“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.

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Thork

Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2011, 03:23:51 PM »
Thank you doctor Hawking.

markjo

• Content Nazi
• The Elder Ones
• 39316
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2011, 03:25:57 PM »
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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EmperorZhark

• 2229
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2011, 03:26:17 PM »
I'm no doctor, I just talk and keep informed.
“The Earth looks flat, therefore it is” FEers wisdom.

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jraffield1

• 697
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2011, 03:39:08 PM »
With my results I believe I have discredited the theory of UA...

There are many symmetries concerning space and time, and as summed up in Noether's theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noether%27s_theorem), each posits the existence of a conservation law. Conservation of linear momentum is a result of the translational invariance of space, conservation of energy comes from invariance in time, and angular momentum results from the rotational invariance of space.

Since we have never witnessed a breaking of these symmetries, Noether's theorem proves that the conservation laws are equally resolute. The first problem with UA is it violates the conservation of linear momentum. With UA, the momentum of the system (in this case the Universe) would be constantly increasing. The second problem with UA is that it violates the conservation of energy. With an ever accelerating Earth, the total energy in the Universe would increase without bound and would most certainly would not be constant.

The next bit doesn't pertain to the UA, but it represents another conservation law broken. In FET, the sun moves in a circle that changes its radius (and goes faster near the edge, and slower near the center), this would mean that the total angular momentum of the sun would not be constant and would violate the conservation of angular momentum.

According to UA theory, everything in the universe is accelerating at 9.8 m/s^s. The total energy of a closed system is constant. Therefore the total energy in the Universe is constant.

The momentum of a relativistic object is
p = mv / sqrt(1 - v^2/c^2)

and the energy for a relativistically traveling object is then
E = sqrt( (mc^2)^2 + (pc)^2)

As everything in the Universe accelerates, its velocity asymptotically approaches the speed of light and its momentum approaches infinity. The total energy for the universe depends on the momenta of every object, and since UA postulates that everything has increasing momentum, then the total energy of the universe MUST increase.
You, sir, can't comprehend the idea of bottoms.

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The Knowledge

• 2391
• FE'ers don't do experiments. It costs too much.
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2011, 04:41:01 PM »
Thank you doctor Hawking.

Why are you calling him Doctor Hawking?
Watermelon, Rhubarb Rhubarb, no one believes the Earth is Flat, Peas and Carrots,  walla.

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Thork

Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2011, 12:03:12 AM »
« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 12:06:36 AM by Thork »

Lord Xenu

• 1029
• ALL HAIL XENU!
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2011, 03:36:05 AM »
"No ether's" theorem? Now if that isn't a bizarrely concocted piece of globularist propaganda, I'll eat my hat.

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jraffield1

• 697
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2011, 12:34:16 PM »
"No ether's" theorem? Now if that isn't a bizarrely concocted piece of globularist propaganda, I'll eat my hat.

Noether is the name of the mathematician who formalized the theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmy_Noether . Her name has nothing to do with any propaganda.
You, sir, can't comprehend the idea of bottoms.

Zogg

• 128
• Secret NASA space picture photoshopper
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2011, 01:18:30 AM »
"No ether's" theorem? Now if that isn't a bizarrely concocted piece of globularist propaganda, I'll eat my hat.

Noether is the name of the mathematician who formalized the theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmy_Noether . Her name has nothing to do with any propaganda.

Enjoy your meal, Lord Xenu !

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Thork

Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2011, 01:23:56 AM »
Another round earther with photoshop and paint skills. This has been noted.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 01:29:08 AM by Thork »

Zogg

• 128
• Secret NASA space picture photoshopper
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2011, 01:27:17 AM »
Now please excuse me, I've some NASA "space pictures" to photoshop.
(Don't look at me like that - I owed them a lot of money, it was that or freezing my feet of on the Ice Wall...)

Lord Xenu

• 1029
• ALL HAIL XENU!
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2011, 01:35:07 AM »
"No ether's" theorem? Now if that isn't a bizarrely concocted piece of globularist propaganda, I'll eat my hat.

Noether is the name of the mathematician who formalized the theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmy_Noether . Her name has nothing to do with any propaganda.
How do you know that the Conspiracy didn't choose her to "invent" this "theorem" because of her hilarious satirical name?

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jraffield1

• 697
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2011, 06:42:43 AM »
"No ether's" theorem? Now if that isn't a bizarrely concocted piece of globularist propaganda, I'll eat my hat.

Noether is the name of the mathematician who formalized the theory. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmy_Noether . Her name has nothing to do with any propaganda.
How do you know that the Conspiracy didn't choose her to "invent" this "theorem" because of her hilarious satirical name?

It doesn't matter what reason she had for producing this theorem, the fact is that it has been mathematically verified and physically tested. Focus on the theory, not the theorist, you'll win more arguments that way.
You, sir, can't comprehend the idea of bottoms.

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flattman

• 39
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2011, 07:24:12 AM »
Another round earther with photoshop and paint skills. This has been noted.

Ever notice how rude the people here are? It's like I can't explain why the earth is flat, so let me insult the majority of the population who think it's round.
Sea sailing Dinosaurs who built boats also built space ships to visit moon shrimp who illluminate the moon.

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Thork

Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2011, 07:27:17 AM »
Another round earther with photoshop and paint skills. This has been noted.

Ever notice how rude the people here are? It's like I can't explain why the earth is flat, so let me insult the majority of the population who think it's round.
I often wonder how so many people come to a Flat Earth Society, and have absolutely no sense of humour. If you can't see the humour in a post like that, you have probably come to the wrong forum. Having fun during debate is the only way we can keep doing it year after year.

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flattman

• 39
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2011, 07:50:27 AM »
Another round earther with photoshop and paint skills. This has been noted.

Ever notice how rude the people here are? It's like I can't explain why the earth is flat, so let me insult the majority of the population who think it's round.
I often wonder how so many people come to a Flat Earth Society, and have absolutely no sense of humour. If you can't see the humour in a post like that, you have probably come to the wrong forum. Having fun during debate is the only way we can keep doing it year after year.

Actually I've been insulted by more than one person here, I don't blame just you.
Sea sailing Dinosaurs who built boats also built space ships to visit moon shrimp who illluminate the moon.

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Thork

Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2011, 08:00:12 AM »
Its an anonymous forum. I wouldn't take it personally. Stop talking b*ll*cks and I'm sure you will be insulted less.

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jraffield1

• 697
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2011, 10:30:03 AM »
Apparently the only defense UA has against Noether's theorem is that the theorist's name can be jumbled around to produce words like ether. This is not science, its not even zetetic science, only wild speculation and invented data.

Just a curious observation though, because she was German, shouldn't her conspiracy-given name be Nein-ether?
You, sir, can't comprehend the idea of bottoms.

Lord Xenu

• 1029
• ALL HAIL XENU!
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2011, 10:50:58 AM »
Apparently the only defense UA has against Noether's theorem is that the theorist's name can be jumbled around to produce words like ether. This is not science, its not even zetetic science, only wild speculation and invented data.
Do we really need to make an effort to prove her theorem wrong? We FEers have already basically decided to rewrite many of the laws of physics. If UA goes against the theorem, then it is the theorem that must be wrong, since we already know the Earth is accelerating through space.

Just a curious observation though, because she was German, shouldn't her conspiracy-given name be Nein-ether?
I do not think her nationality should necessarily have any bearing on the nature of the slyly humorous name given to her by the Conspiracy.

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jraffield1

• 697
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2011, 11:04:57 AM »
Apparently the only defense UA has against Noether's theorem is that the theorist's name can be jumbled around to produce words like ether. This is not science, its not even zetetic science, only wild speculation and invented data.
Do we really need to make an effort to prove her theorem wrong? We FEers have already basically decided to rewrite many of the laws of physics. If UA goes against the theorem, then it is the theorem that must be wrong, since we already know the Earth is accelerating through space.

If you assume that UA exists, then Noether's theorem is false. If Noether's theorem is false, then conservation of momentum doesn't exist.

Given the several hundred years of verification without a single counterexample, conservation of momentum is tantamount to a theoretical and empirical law.

Thus, Noether' theorem disproves UA.
You, sir, can't comprehend the idea of bottoms.

Lord Xenu

• 1029
• ALL HAIL XENU!
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2011, 11:07:19 AM »
Apparently the only defense UA has against Noether's theorem is that the theorist's name can be jumbled around to produce words like ether. This is not science, its not even zetetic science, only wild speculation and invented data.
Do we really need to make an effort to prove her theorem wrong? We FEers have already basically decided to rewrite many of the laws of physics. If UA goes against the theorem, then it is the theorem that must be wrong, since we already know the Earth is accelerating through space.

If you assume that UA exists, then Noether's theorem is false. If Noether's theorem is false, then conservation of momentum doesn't exist.

Given the several hundred years of verification without a single counterexample, conservation of momentum is tantamount to a theoretical and empirical law.

Thus, Noether' theorem disproves UA.
But I experience the effects of UA all the time, so it must be real.

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jraffield1

• 697
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2011, 11:58:48 AM »
Apparently the only defense UA has against Noether's theorem is that the theorist's name can be jumbled around to produce words like ether. This is not science, its not even zetetic science, only wild speculation and invented data.
Do we really need to make an effort to prove her theorem wrong? We FEers have already basically decided to rewrite many of the laws of physics. If UA goes against the theorem, then it is the theorem that must be wrong, since we already know the Earth is accelerating through space.

If you assume that UA exists, then Noether's theorem is false. If Noether's theorem is false, then conservation of momentum doesn't exist.

Given the several hundred years of verification without a single counterexample, conservation of momentum is tantamount to a theoretical and empirical law.

Thus, Noether' theorem disproves UA.
But I experience the effects of UA all the time, so it must be real.

You do indeed feel the effects of a something, but you mistakenly attribute it to UA. Due to the equivalence principle, we know that we are either accelerating or in a gravitational field. Both models explain everyday experiences fairly well. When a ball is thrown up in the air, FE says that the Earth will accelerate up to catch the ball. In RE, the ball experiences an acceleration due to gravity in the direction of the Earth. Both predict the same outcome of events, that is why we cannot disprove either gravity or UA based on the motion of objects alone.

Like I said before, if UA did exist, then there would be no conservation of momentum. Since momentum is clearly conserved, UA cannot exist. If UA cannot exist, then the only remaining theory that matches observations is gravity.
You, sir, can't comprehend the idea of bottoms.

markjo

• Content Nazi
• The Elder Ones
• 39316
Re: UA violates laws of space and time
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2011, 01:17:13 PM »
Another round earther with photoshop and paint skills. This has been noted.

And, in the interest of full disclosure, it should be noted that several FE'ers (including yourself) have demonstrated photoshop and paint skills as well.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.