Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues

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Tom Bishop

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I've posted this model before, but these questions about the Southern Hemisphere keep coming up. There is an alternative FET map which addresses some concerns about the South Celestial Pole and travel times.



In the above model there are two spinning celestial systems suspended over the earth. One is centered over the North Pole and the other is centered over Antarctica. When observers on South America, Africa, or Australia look Southwards they will see the Southern Celestial System.

The magnetic field lines blossom outwards from the North Pole as well as the South Pole. Imagine that the distorted longitude lines on the above map are magnetic field lines which the compass aligns with. In the North the compass will align with the field lines and take the user around the North Pole while traveling Eastwards or Westwards. Likewise, in the South the compass will align with the field lines and take the user around the South Pole while traveling Eastwards or Westwards.

There is still an Ice Wall in this model, but is it not Antarctica. Beyond the rays of the sun the waters surrounding the earth will naturally freeze.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 09:38:32 PM by Tom Bishop »

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thefireproofmatch

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Re: Alternative FET Map
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2011, 02:25:58 PM »
Interesting. However, wouldn't areas of land near the "edge" (such as hawaii) be greatly disorted and streched out?
we're expected to throw up our hands and just BELIEVE.

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Skeleton

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2011, 02:38:36 PM »
Explain the motions of the sun in this model. Oh thats right, you cant.
If the ultimate objective is to kill Skeleton, we should just do that next.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Alternative FET Map
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2011, 03:05:22 PM »
Interesting. However, wouldn't areas of land near the "edge" (such as hawaii) be greatly disorted and streched out?

Of course Hawaii wouldn't be stretched out, nor would Australia be in the weird shape that it's in. This map is just visualizing the general idea.

Quote from: Skeleton
Explain the motions of the sun in this model. Oh thats right, you cant.

Well, just plot the movements of the sun onto this new map.

Throughout the year the sun is traveling North-South between the Tropic of Capricorn and the Tropic of Cancer. In this model for half of the year the sun is traveling around the North Pole and for half of the year the sun is traveling around the South Pole. At some point the sun "switches gears" and begins traveling on the opposing celestial system. This gives long Northern Summers, short Northern Winters, and vice-versa in the South. This also explains the midnight sun in Antarctica.

How and why the sun switches gears is, of course, unknown. This mystery can be included amongst the many mysteries of the heavens.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 07:13:26 PM by Tom Bishop »

Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2011, 03:41:14 PM »
i like this new map

good job, master lord willmore would be proud



ps, can we at leastchange the name "spotlight" to "acts like a spotlight" in the FAQ

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Skeleton

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Re: Alternative FET Map
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2011, 05:21:16 PM »
Interesting. However, wouldn't areas of land near the "edge" (such as hawaii) be greatly disorted and streched out?

Of course Hawaii wouldn't be stretched out, nor would Australia be in the weird shape that it's in. This map is just visualizing the general idea.

Quote from: Skeleton
Explain the motions of the sun in this model. Oh thats right, you cant.

Well, just plot the movements of the sun onto this new map.

Throughout the year the sun is traveling North-South between the Tropic of Capricorn and the Tropic of Cancer. In this model for half of the year the sun is traveling around the North Pole and for half of the year the sun is traveling around the South Pole. At some point the sun "switches gears" and begins traveling on the opposing celestial system. This gives long Northern Summers, short Northern Winters, and vice-versa in the South. This also explains the midnight sun in Antarctica.

How and why the sun switches gears is, of course, unknown. It can be included amongst the many mysteries of the heavens.

I said explain the motions of the sun, not describe them. What you describe is not what is observed by people.
You will of course also explain how the sun is able to travel at constant speed on this map, how it goes from one track to another overnight while observers on the ground notice only a barely perceptible difference in its location in the sky from one day to the next, and how an observer in the sea on the equator on near there would not see it pass to their left on one day and to their right on the other on the day it switches tracks. Do your best, I will get the popcorn.
If the ultimate objective is to kill Skeleton, we should just do that next.

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Around And About

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2011, 05:26:38 PM »
Great...where's The Hobbit being filmed?
I'm not black nor a thug, I'm more like god who will bring 7 plagues of flat earth upon your ass.

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sillyrob

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2011, 05:34:23 PM »
So which is the map you believe in?

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2011, 05:36:10 PM »
What exactly is involved in becoming a FE cartographer. 

It seems like you imagine a concept and then place it on a circle?



What would I know though, surveying has nothing to do with maps............
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Nolhekh

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2011, 06:13:34 PM »
So by your description, places between 90 degrees west to 90 degrees east on the international date line side have the sun only visible to the southern hemisphere from September equinox to March equinox, and visible only to the northern hemisphere from the March equinox to the September equinox.

Also your compass won't help you circumnavigate east west.  East west is always perpendicular to north and south.  Notice how in the distorted areas, latitude and longitude lines are not perpendicular, so your compass will follow the longitude, and give you false latitude, leading you off the edge if you're trying to go east or west.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Alternative FET Map
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2011, 06:24:07 PM »
Quote from: Skeleton
I said explain the motions of the sun, not describe them. What you describe is not what is observed by people. You will of course also explain how the sun is able to travel at constant speed on this map, how it goes from one track to another overnight while observers on the ground notice only a barely perceptible difference in its location in the sky from one day to the next, and how an observer in the sea on the equator on near there would not see it pass to their left on one day and to their right on the other on the day it switches tracks. Do your best, I will get the popcorn.

You can't say what observers on the equator experience on the day the sun switches gears. These are third world countries on the equator. Who is to notice if the sun rises slightly to the right and sets slightly to the left?

The people there are more concerned with spearing zebras for dinner, knitting loincloths, and coming to terms with a permanent body oder. They are not interested in studying alternative world models.

Quote from: Nolhekh
So by your description, places between 90 degrees west to 90 degrees east on the international date line side have the sun only visible to the southern hemisphere from September equinox to March equinox, and visible only to the northern hemisphere from the March equinox to the September equinox.

That would depend on how big you're imaging the sun's area of light to be.

I don't have data on the area of land the sun affects. I couldn't say.

Quote from: Nolhekh
Also your compass won't help you circumnavigate east west.  East west is always perpendicular to north and south.  Notice how in the distorted areas, latitude and longitude lines are not perpendicular, so your compass will follow the longitude, and give you false latitude, leading you off the edge if you're trying to go east or west.

East-west travel will work on that map. The magnetic field lines blossoms and radiate outwards from the North and South Poles. Wherever you are the compass will align with the field lines. If you are in South Africa and move eastwards continuously your compass will take you in a circle around the South Pole, as the magnetic field lines will change as you move.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 06:33:47 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2011, 06:32:13 PM »
You can't say what observers on the equator experience on the day the sun switches gears. These are third world countries on the equator. Who is to notice if the sun rises slightly to the right and sets slightly to the left?

The people there are more concerned with spearing zebras for dinner, knitting loincloths, and coming to terms with a permanent body oder. They are not interested in studying alternative world models.

What evidence do you have of this ridiculous theory?  There are many extremely advanced cities close to the equator, which have professionals in many fields, including surveyors and astronomers.




Singapore



Bogota



Jakarta




I especially like the one of Jakarta, you can see the early cave paintings, the dwellers have written in their own feces
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 06:35:21 PM by Theodolite »
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berny_74

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Re: Alternative FET Map
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2011, 06:42:10 PM »
You can't say what observers on the equator experience on the day the sun switches gears. These are third world countries on the equator. Who is to notice if the sun rises slightly to the right and sets slightly to the left?

The people there are more concerned with spearing zebras for dinner, knitting loincloths, and coming to terms with a permanent body oder. They are not interested in studying alternative world models.

That is pretty much the most miserable piece of garbage I've seen in a long time outside RM.
I am sure that the people of Brazil would consider themselves spearing zebras.  They may not be as 'high end' as your little seat but they have a very large aerospace industry - have the second largest amount of airports in the world (second to the united states) and in the top ten for economies.

I would also like to point out that the Inuit on North America (spearing seals for dinner, stitching leather mukluks etc) have a very advanced view of astronomy - as mentioned by your fellow FE peers. 
 
Quote from: Tom Bishop

East-west travel will work on that map. The magnetic field lines blossom and radiate outwards from the North and South Poles. Wherever you are the compass will align with the field lines. If you are in South Africa and move eastwards continuously your compass will take you in a circle around the South Pole, as the magnetic field lines will change as you move.

And what of the much more common gyrocompass?  Unaffected by magnetism the Gyrcompass will point to true north/south it is not dependent on it as it is fixed to a celestial point.

Berny
Awaiting Ski
And ninjad by Theodolite in his view of your ridiculous Ethnocentric views

To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2011, 06:43:35 PM »
Now on to your curved lines of Longitude.  I dont have the figures in front of me, but I know for a fact that the Canadian provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan have been completely surveyed using a township and range system.  They have traversed and posted the entire provinces into 1 mile squares.  There is a difference between the width of the provinces at South end, and the North end.  In the south there are more 1 mile squares then there are in the north.  The amount is on scale with the round earth lines of longitude, your map would significantly skew these readings, and does not match up to documented real world surveys.


(Actually, no flat earth matches up to the surveys that have been conducted in every country of the world)
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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Nolhekh

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Re: Alternative FET Map
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2011, 06:46:45 PM »
Quote from: Nolhekh
So by your description, places between 90 degrees west to 90 degrees east on the international date line side have the sun only visible to the southern hemisphere from September equinox to March equinox, and visible only to the northern hemisphere from the March equinox to the September equinox.

That would depend on how big you're imaging the sun's area of light to be.

Well for New Zealand during June, it would have to reach across the entire earth.
Quote
I don't have data on the area of land the sun affects. I couldn't say.

Quote from: Nolhekh
Also your compass won't help you circumnavigate east west.  East west is always perpendicular to north and south. Notice how in the distorted areas, latitude and longitude lines are not perpendicular, so your compass will follow the longitude, and give you false latitude, leading you off the edge if you're trying to go east or west.

East-west travel will work on that map. The magnetic field lines blossoms and radiate outwards from the North and South Poles. Wherever you are the compass will align with the field lines. If you are in South Africa and move eastwards continuously your compass will take you in a circle around the South Pole, as the magnetic field lines will change as you move.
Yes, but read my post again especially the bolded part.  Also, magnetic field lines will always cross the equator at perpendicular lines.  So if you are travelling along the equator, there will be no sudden change in direction for north and south, and you will be led straight into the ice wall.  Keep in mind that the lines in your map are distorted angular coordinates for a sphere, and do not represent a magnetic field.

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Nolhekh

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Re: Alternative FET Map
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2011, 06:48:43 PM »
You can't say what observers on the equator experience on the day the sun switches gears. These are third world countries on the equator. Who is to notice if the sun rises slightly to the right and sets slightly to the left?

The people there are more concerned with spearing zebras for dinner, knitting loincloths, and coming to terms with a permanent body oder. They are not interested in studying alternative world models.
how about the US and Japanese navies during world war 2?  You actually think they were travelling around the circumference of the entire known world?

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2011, 06:50:38 PM »


Dont forget this ancient stone age community

Kuala Lumpur
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 06:52:32 PM by Theodolite »
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Around And About

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2011, 06:54:43 PM »
I am reporting Tom Bishop for his blatant racism.
I'm not black nor a thug, I'm more like god who will bring 7 plagues of flat earth upon your ass.

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thefireproofmatch

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2011, 07:11:28 PM »
"Coming to terms with a permanent body oder"

Do not insult me and countless other civilized human beings. I am half Filipino.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 07:16:03 PM by thefireproofmatch »
we're expected to throw up our hands and just BELIEVE.

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Demouse

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2011, 07:35:56 PM »
So what happens when somone from new zealand takes a flight to los-angelis VIA Hawaii. It seems like the trip would take much longer than it does since it would involve following the border of the enitre disk.


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berny_74

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2011, 07:45:46 PM »
So what happens when somone from new zealand takes a flight to los-angelis VIA Hawaii. It seems like the trip would take much longer than it does since it would involve following the border of the enitre disk.

You're right - I just remembered I went to Fiji - 6 hours Toronto to Vancouver, 6 hours Vancouver to Hawaii and about 6 hours Hawaii to Fiji.  I swam with sharks.


Berny
Saw 2 films with Hugh Grant and 2 films with Julia Roberts.  1 With Claire Danes.  The only good one was an Australian Artsy film that had none of the above.

To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2011, 07:52:10 PM »
So what happens when somone from new zealand takes a flight to los-angelis VIA Hawaii. It seems like the trip would take much longer than it does since it would involve following the border of the enitre disk.

There aren't any direct flights between Hawaii and New Zealand, but the flights that will take you there involve sitting in a plane for almost thirty hours.

« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 07:53:53 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2011, 07:54:32 PM »
You are implying with that ticket that there are no flights from hawaii to new zealand that do not go through san fransisco?
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2011, 07:57:33 PM »
You are implying with that ticket that there are no flights from hawaii to new zealand that do not go through san fransisco?

I couldn't find any direct flights from hawaii to new zealand. It shouldn't be assumed that there are direct flights between every airport on earth.

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2011, 08:03:51 PM »


26.5hrs total, 12hrs 50 mins of which is spent in sydney waiting for a flight



Google earth distance from honolulu to sydney:   8100km
Sydney to auckland:   2100km

Total distance flown 10,200km 
Flight time  13hrs 40mins    13.6666hrs

Average flight speed  750 km/hr

Obviously the flight speed would have to be faster, as some time is wasted at either end.

I will not even attempt to guess as to the scale of the FE map, or which one applies.  None of them will come close to 10,200km though im sure
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 08:10:49 PM by Theodolite »
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2011, 08:11:19 PM »


26.5hrs total, 12hrs 50 mins of which is spent in sydney waiting for a flight



Google earth distance from honolulu to sydney:   8100km
Sydney to auckland:   2100km

Total distance flown 10,200km 
Flight time  13hrs 40mins    13.6666hrs

Average flight speed  750 km/hr

Obviously the flight speed would have to be faster, as some time is wasted at either end.

Does the flight use any jet streams to reach its destination? Pilots often use jet streams on international flights to save on time and fuel.

Also, please keep in mind that this is a calculator for a future flight, not a record of past flight. We don't know whether this flight will be delayed due to faulty beliefs about the earth's shape.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 08:12:59 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2011, 08:14:17 PM »
Record the speed at 0.9 mach if you need, I am positive it will not work on your map.

This is a normal international flight.  Quantas has a satisfactory record of arriving on time.
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you

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berny_74

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2011, 08:22:22 PM »
Record the speed at 0.9 mach if you need, I am positive it will not work on your map.

This is a normal international flight.  Quantas has a satisfactory record of arriving on time.

I know you have not been on this site long - but you are falling down one of TB's clever traps.  He will get you so frustrated in arguing the most baseless points that in reality he's able to skip the actual points that have all been ignored.

He is actually pretty good at it - I pulled up the Quantas flights earlier but stopped posting because of previous attempts that resorted to pusher birds(Pongo), conspiracy pilots and sleeping gas(Crustinator) and Thork who takes a realistic flight plan and then keeps you in holding patterns for hours on end.

Also anything requiring historical records is automatically suspect by TB unless it proves a point he likes - he also has the ability to invoke and reject bendy light on a whim.  And using any predicting almanac is useless to him no matter what effective results are used.

Berny
Sees where this thread is going
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
Moonlight is good for you.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2011, 08:26:46 PM »
Quote
    Record the speed at 0.9 mach if you need, I am positive it will not work on your map.

- Jetstreams can reach speeds well over 200 mph (source)

Quote
This is a normal international flight.  Quantas has a satisfactory record of arriving on time.

Anyone who has been to an airport knows that flight delays are quite common.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 08:31:23 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Theodolite

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Re: Alternative FET Map which addresses Southern Hemisphere issues
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2011, 08:28:49 PM »
Quote
Record the speed at 0.9 mach if you need, I am positive it will not work on your map.

- Jetstreams can reach speeds well over 200 mph (source)

Quote
This is a normal international flight.  Quantas has a satisfactory record of arriving on time.

Anyone who has been to an airport knows that flight delays are quite common.

I am not sure of what purpose you thought this post would serve.  You have repeated what I have just said.

Quantas has a satisfactory record of late arrivals.  If every flight on a certain route was always late by 100%........

actual speed of airliners+speed of jet stream is more or less 0.9 mach
Gather round my gentle sheep, I have a wonderful spherical story for you