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Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures

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Pudding

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Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« on: January 03, 2011, 02:08:42 AM »
One of the biggest stumbling points in FET is regarding the southern hemisphere. I am well aware that it has been spoken about previously but I would like to bring some data into the argument.

Following intensive research, an Antarctic circumnavigation (and a fast one at that I hasten to add) covering a total distance of some 12,565 nautical miles (14,460 miles) in a total of 64 days, or an average distance of over 226 miles per day using RE measurement.

[source]

Now, if we take FE methodology and apply it to the problem, we will find that according to FE theory the distance is approximately 3 times that of RE, meaning we would now have to travel about 678 miles per day - well beyond the maximum speed of such vessels (icebreakers).

In fact, the maximum speed of the vessel (Kapitan Khlebnikov) is 19 knots or 22 mph and its cruising speed is 14 knots (16 mph).

[source]

so going full pelt for 24 hours would give us a distance covered of 528 miles, still a long way short of the distance under FET even if full steam ahead could be maintained indefinitely.

So you see,  the flat earth model falls flat on its face once more (pun intended).

Unless I can be proven wrong, with arbitrary off-site links just as I have provided, of course... or am I going to see yet more attempts at derailing a serious debate as per usual?



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Tom Bishop

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2011, 05:55:48 AM »
Is there any evidence that Kapitan Khlebnikov makes a full circumnavigation of Antarctica?

How do we know that it doesn't simply follow along the Antarctic coast for the requisite distance promised for the tour and then, once the tour is over, turns North to go home, its passengers thinking that they just "circumnavigated Antarctica"?
« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 08:55:31 AM by Tom Bishop »
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General Disarray

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2011, 10:17:13 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 03, 2011, 05:55:48 AM
Is there any evidence that Kapitan Khlebnikov makes a full circumnavigation of Antarctica?

How do we know that it doesn't simply follow along the Antarctic coast for the requisite distance promised for the tour and then, once the tour is over, turns North to go home, its passengers thinking that they just "circumnavigated Antarctica"?

His passengers might notice if they ended up in a different place than they expected, or if the return trip took abnormally long.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2011, 10:29:40 AM »
Quote from: General Disarray on January 03, 2011, 10:17:13 AM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 03, 2011, 05:55:48 AM
Is there any evidence that Kapitan Khlebnikov makes a full circumnavigation of Antarctica?

How do we know that it doesn't simply follow along the Antarctic coast for the requisite distance promised for the tour and then, once the tour is over, turns North to go home, its passengers thinking that they just "circumnavigated Antarctica"?

His passengers might notice if they ended up in a different place than they expected, or if the return trip took abnormally long.

Do you have logs from the vessel to tell us what they experienced?
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trig

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2011, 11:11:19 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 03, 2011, 10:29:40 AM
Quote from: General Disarray on January 03, 2011, 10:17:13 AM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 03, 2011, 05:55:48 AM
Is there any evidence that Kapitan Khlebnikov makes a full circumnavigation of Antarctica?

How do we know that it doesn't simply follow along the Antarctic coast for the requisite distance promised for the tour and then, once the tour is over, turns North to go home, its passengers thinking that they just "circumnavigated Antarctica"?

His passengers might notice if they ended up in a different place than they expected, or if the return trip took abnormally long.

Do you have logs from the vessel to tell us what they experienced?
We have the detailed logs of Clarke Ross, who did a similar voyage, covering 5/6 of the circumnavigation of Antarctica. And that trip was done in the 1830's, when a surprisingly fast voyage was even harder to achieve, so he would have noticed if his ship was traveling at unheard speeds for the time. And the logs of this voyage, among many others like it, might be available if you know whom to ask.

Please remember that the bold Tom Bishop is calling Kapitan Khlebnikov or the reporters liars even though he has not been able to show he even has the minimum knowledge about navigation that every high school graduate indirectly got in Mathematics classes. Saying someone experienced unbelievably fast currents but did not report them, even though they would have changed all our knowledge of the Seas and the Winds and Antarctica, is very close to call them liars.

We also have the logs of those who explored the South Pole, and several scientists go to the Amundsen-Scott station, which is very close to the geographic South Pole, and keep logs. All these people should be added to Tom Bishop's list of idiots or conspirators, together with the whole population of Southern Argentina and Southern Chile.
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Ranger 3

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2011, 11:21:55 AM »
For Tom Bishop, the mere possibility (though however unlikely) that something could be faked, forged, fudged, mistaken or lied about is evidence enough that it was, is, or has been.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2011, 11:59:38 AM »
Quote
We have the detailed logs of Clarke Ross, who did a similar voyage, covering 5/6 of the circumnavigation of Antarctica. And that trip was done in the 1830's, when a surprisingly fast voyage was even harder to achieve, so he would have noticed if his ship was traveling at unheard speeds for the time. And the logs of this voyage, among many others like it, might be available if you know whom to ask.

How do we know that Ross circumnavigated 5/6ths of Antarcitca, and did not just travel along the ice wall for that distance and then turn back North?
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berny_74

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2011, 12:02:29 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 03, 2011, 11:59:38 AM
Quote
We have the detailed logs of Clarke Ross, who did a similar voyage, covering 5/6 of the circumnavigation of Antarctica. And that trip was done in the 1830's, when a surprisingly fast voyage was even harder to achieve, so he would have noticed if his ship was traveling at unheard speeds for the time. And the logs of this voyage, among many others like it, might be available if you know whom to ask.

How do we know that Ross circumnavigated 5/6ths of Antarcitca, and did not just travel along the ice wall for that distance and then turn back North?

Because there is no ice wall.
Or the ice wall exists  in the Arctic.

Berny
Have you travelled?
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Quote from: markjo on August 18, 2011, 10:31:34 AM
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pizzaguy

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2011, 03:34:19 PM »
Quote from: Ranger 3 on January 03, 2011, 11:21:55 AM
For Tom Bishop, the mere possibility (though however unlikely) that something could be faked, forged, fudged, mistaken or lied about is evidence enough that it was, is, or has been.


Well, I've been here less than 8 hours and even I saw that!   So....

Anyone ever told you that you have an amazing grasp of the blatantly obvious?    8)

(J/K with you - that's a wonderful one-liner from "Frasier".)
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New Earth

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2011, 04:04:28 PM »
Paradise lays south of Antarctica. LOL
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Pudding

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2011, 11:52:34 PM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 03, 2011, 05:55:48 AM
Is there any evidence that Kapitan Khlebnikov makes a full circumnavigation of Antarctica?

How do we know that it doesn't simply follow along the Antarctic coast for the requisite distance promised for the tour and then, once the tour is over, turns North to go home, its passengers thinking that they just "circumnavigated Antarctica"?


I had been searching the internet for Antarctic sailing data for quite a while before finding the data cited in the OP. The Kapitan Khlebnikov is nowadays technically a cruise ship (if you are interested in booking a seat, it will cost you between £25,000 - £40,000 a pop) carrying up to 100 passengers. Now all these well-heeled chilly sightseers are more than adequately equipped with the latest in GPS tech and cameras etc, so I don't think that it would be so simple to con those people in regards to charting the movement of the vessel.

Plus, are you implying that a cruise company, the ship's captain and crew are also in on the conspiracy? Is that really the most logical explanation?

I do look forward to a reply from you particularly, seeing as I have asked you to clarify bold statements you have made before to no avail on a few occasions. I hope you do answer this time in any case.

So to answer your first question, there is plenty of unbiased documentation on the internet regarding itineraries and reports from people who have made the voyage.

Are you saying that you have evidence that Kapitan Khlebnikov does not make a full circumnavigation of Antarctica?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2011, 01:01:05 AM »
Quote from: Pudding on January 03, 2011, 11:52:34 PM
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 03, 2011, 05:55:48 AM
Is there any evidence that Kapitan Khlebnikov makes a full circumnavigation of Antarctica?

How do we know that it doesn't simply follow along the Antarctic coast for the requisite distance promised for the tour and then, once the tour is over, turns North to go home, its passengers thinking that they just "circumnavigated Antarctica"?


I had been searching the internet for Antarctic sailing data for quite a while before finding the data cited in the OP. The Kapitan Khlebnikov is nowadays technically a cruise ship (if you are interested in booking a seat, it will cost you between £25,000 - £40,000 a pop) carrying up to 100 passengers. Now all these well-heeled chilly sightseers are more than adequately equipped with the latest in GPS tech and cameras etc, so I don't think that it would be so simple to con those people in regards to charting the movement of the vessel.

Plus, are you implying that a cruise company, the ship's captain and crew are also in on the conspiracy? Is that really the most logical explanation?

I do look forward to a reply from you particularly, seeing as I have asked you to clarify bold statements you have made before to no avail on a few occasions. I hope you do answer this time in any case.

So to answer your first question, there is plenty of unbiased documentation on the internet regarding itineraries and reports from people who have made the voyage.

Are you saying that you have evidence that Kapitan Khlebnikov does not make a full circumnavigation of Antarctica?

Kapitan Khlebnikov knows that fuel is limited.

Kapitan Khlebnikov also "knows" that antarctica has a circumference of x miles.

Therefore, when Kapitan Khlebnikov takes passengers for a cruise around Antarcitca, the ship travels along the Antarctic coast for the requisite number of miles and then heads Northwards back towards warmer latitudes.

Whether Kapitan Khlebnikov knows that he is not truly circumnavigating Antarctica, or whether Kapitan Khlebnikov is ignorant on the matter, is unknown.

What we do know for certain, however, is that Kapitan Khlebnikov definitely does not circumnavigate Antarctica successfully, as the earth is not a globe.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2011, 01:16:20 AM by Tom Bishop »
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berny_74

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2011, 03:34:05 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 04, 2011, 01:01:05 AM

What we do know for certain, however, is that Kapitan Khlebnikov definitely does not circumnavigate Antarctica successfully, as the earth is not a globe.

You know from what I've seen around here you are the ONLY semi-serious FE'er that really believes that Antarctica is not a discrete continent.  I think first you have to argue you with your fellows.

Quote
The ship travels along the Antarctic coast for the requisite number of miles and then heads Northwards

The only way a ship to know the actual number of miles it has travelled is to find its Lat-Long coordinates.  Using its speed is only useful for dead reckoning.

Quote
Whether Kapitan Khlebnikov knows that he is not truly circumnavigating Antarctica, or whether Kapitan Khlebnikov is ignorant on the matter, is unknown.

Kapitan Khlebnikov also knows its Lat-Long coordinates so it will know if is truly circumnavigating Antarctica.
Lat-Long coordinates can be gained by differing methods not just by GPS.

Berny
Seriously - come up with better arguments.
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Part of the Problem

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2011, 08:35:44 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 04, 2011, 01:01:05 AM
What we do know for certain, however, is that Kapitan Khlebnikov definitely does not circumnavigate Antarctica successfully, as the earth is not a globe.

What I do know for certain is that a debate with you is as pointless as debating with a religious zealot.  You are not seeking any type of enlightenment or truth.  You already have the answer and for questions you don't have an explanation for, the answer must follow your original assumption that the earth is not a globe.  Believe what want, but just don't call yourself a skeptic because it implies that you have an open mind.
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iwanttobelieve

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2011, 09:34:44 AM »
i believe in Master Lord Willimires theory that Antarctica is a land mass by itself and the the edge is beyond.
That would explain why Antarctica can be circumnavigated and that the earth is  a non spherical disc.

He is a visionary.
 
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trig

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2011, 11:20:40 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 03, 2011, 11:59:38 AM
Quote
We have the detailed logs of Clarke Ross, who did a similar voyage, covering 5/6 of the circumnavigation of Antarctica. And that trip was done in the 1830's, when a surprisingly fast voyage was even harder to achieve, so he would have noticed if his ship was traveling at unheard speeds for the time. And the logs of this voyage, among many others like it, might be available if you know whom to ask.

How do we know that Ross circumnavigated 5/6ths of Antarcitca, and did not just travel along the ice wall for that distance and then turn back North?
If you had even the slightest idea of navigation, navigation charts, compasses, and all the 2000 years of accumulated science that support the navigation techniques now in use, you would be totally embarrassed by the question itself.

If you go to Punta Arenas in Chile, circumnavigate along the coast of Antarctica for the equivalent of 20000 kilometers East along the 60 degree parallel South, and head North back again, you get back to Punta Arenas. But if the Earth was flat and you did the same (20000 kilometers East along the 60 parallel, then North) you would get to the middle of the Indian Ocean.

There just is no way to be such a bad navigator, that you cannot tell the difference between some 20000 kilometers of coast and 60000 kilometers of coast. If you are that bad and someone lends you a boat, you end up lost at sea and dead from starvation. But you always have implied that every single one of the inhabitants of the Southern Hemisphere are idiots, even though many of them do know about navigation and you do not.
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trig

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2011, 11:28:34 AM »
Quote from: iwanttobelieve on January 04, 2011, 09:34:44 AM
i believe in Master Lord Willimires theory that Antarctica is a land mass by itself and the the edge is beyond.
That would explain why Antarctica can be circumnavigated and that the earth is  a non spherical disc.

He is a visionary.
 
Then you can explain how the Sun is seen where it is seen when close to Antarctica, unless, of course you are knowingly talking idiocies.

In the map that Wilmore likes the Sun will never go all the way around a person close to the South Pole, as so many people have seen it to do.

At best the Sun will move from North-East to North-West and dissappear, no matter the day of the year.
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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2011, 11:49:24 AM »
Quote from: trig on January 04, 2011, 11:28:34 AM
Then you can explain how the Sun is seen where it is seen when close to Antarctica, unless, of course you are knowingly talking idiocies.

In the map that Wilmore likes the Sun will never go all the way around a person close to the South Pole, as so many people have seen it to do.

At best the Sun will move from North-East to North-West and dissappear, no matter the day of the year.

All this hinges on getting oneself to the RE South Pole or sailing along the Antarctic coast line.  I haven't and don't anticipate any such trip in the foreseeable future.  The only FES member I'm aware of that tried to get to Antarctica was stopped by authorities.  Maybe, as you say, many other people have done so but for me, it remains second or third-hand information and an 'if.'
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trig

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2011, 05:54:49 AM »
Quote from: Mrs. Peach on January 04, 2011, 11:49:24 AM
Quote from: trig on January 04, 2011, 11:28:34 AM
Then you can explain how the Sun is seen where it is seen when close to Antarctica, unless, of course you are knowingly talking idiocies.

In the map that Wilmore likes the Sun will never go all the way around a person close to the South Pole, as so many people have seen it to do.

At best the Sun will move from North-East to North-West and dissappear, no matter the day of the year.

All this hinges on getting oneself to the RE South Pole or sailing along the Antarctic coast line.  I haven't and don't anticipate any such trip in the foreseeable future.  The only FES member I'm aware of that tried to get to Antarctica was stopped by authorities.  Maybe, as you say, many other people have done so but for me, it remains second or third-hand information and an 'if.'
There are lots of experiments and observations you can do without traveling, or at least without much traveling. While the observations are much simpler if you are close to the South Pole, you don't even have to go to the Southern Hemisphere to see all FE "theories" in this forum unraveling.

The simple fact that by assuming a flat Earth you cannot find a proper path for the Sun so it will be seen where everyone sees it is enough evidence to throw every FE "theory" away. And you can navigate a few hundred miles from the place you live and make simple measurements of the placement of the stars, planets, Sun and Moon to see how you cannot navigate with any precision at all if you start with any of the models of flat Earth mentioned in this forum.

Going all the way to Antarctica only makes even clearer what is already evident in any place on Earth. Navigators have made very precise measurements of the paths they navigate and correlated them with the stars since about 500 years ago (that is the way the sextant was invented).

The argument about trips to Antarctica is just a ruse of the few remaining FE'rs: "if you have to make a terribly expensive trip to disprove me, then I can claim victory without any evidence on my side". It is a totally brain dead argument, but nobody has ever said FE'rs are geniuses.
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Tom Bishop

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2011, 08:43:52 AM »
Quote from: trig on January 05, 2011, 05:54:49 AM
The argument about trips to Antarctica is just a ruse of the few remaining FE'rs: "if you have to make a terribly expensive trip to disprove me, then I can claim victory without any evidence on my side". It is a totally brain dead argument, but nobody has ever said FE'rs are geniuses.

It's not a brain dead argument. You're here making unverifiable claims which you have never seen or experienced. The burden of proof is on you to verify these claims. If you cannot do that then your theory is bunk.
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berny_74

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2011, 09:09:55 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 05, 2011, 08:43:52 AM
Quote from: trig on January 05, 2011, 05:54:49 AM
The argument about trips to Antarctica is just a ruse of the few remaining FE'rs: "if you have to make a terribly expensive trip to disprove me, then I can claim victory without any evidence on my side". It is a totally brain dead argument, but nobody has ever said FE'rs are geniuses.

It's not a brain dead argument. You're here making unverifiable claims which you have never seen or experienced. The burden of proof is on you to verify these claims. If you cannot do that then your theory is bunk.

There is no less burden of proof on you who make claims you have never experience and then point to a wiki you in part made up to back up your claims.  The whole Antarctic question is in part ridiculous.  The Antarctic area's are navigated and populated by normal people experiencing normal lives.  You are in part perpetuating an extremely unhealthy Ptolemaic bias of a North Centric viewpoint.

Berny

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Quote from: markjo on August 18, 2011, 10:31:34 AM
To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2011, 09:35:47 AM »
Quote from: trig on January 05, 2011, 05:54:49 AM
The argument about trips to Antarctica is just a ruse of the few remaining FE'rs: "if you have to make a terribly expensive trip to disprove me, then I can claim victory without any evidence on my side". It is a totally brain dead argument, but nobody has ever said FE'rs are geniuses.

There was no claim of victory in my response. Globularists seem obsessed with an attempt to make our small society solely some object of internet gamesmanship.
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General Disarray

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2011, 09:39:35 AM »
Quote from: Mrs. Peach on January 05, 2011, 09:35:47 AM
Quote from: trig on January 05, 2011, 05:54:49 AM
The argument about trips to Antarctica is just a ruse of the few remaining FE'rs: "if you have to make a terribly expensive trip to disprove me, then I can claim victory without any evidence on my side". It is a totally brain dead argument, but nobody has ever said FE'rs are geniuses.

There was no claim of victory in my response. Globularists seem obsessed with an attempt to make our small society solely some object of internet gamesmanship.


It's people like EG and Ichi spamming "ANOTHER VICTORY FOR FE" all over the place that led to that.
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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2011, 10:04:21 AM »
Quote from: General Disarray on January 05, 2011, 09:39:35 AM
It's people like EG and Ichi spamming "ANOTHER VICTORY FOR FE" all over the place that led to that.

Have you considered that a person may be sorely tempted to make those kind of statements in response to being termed "brain dead" because of a personal inability to circumnavigate Antarctica?
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Hessy

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2011, 10:09:48 AM »
Quote from: Mrs. Peach on January 05, 2011, 10:04:21 AM
Have you considered that a person may be sorely tempted to make those kind of statements in response to being termed "brain dead" because of a personal inability to circumnavigate Antarctica?


Quote from: trig on January 05, 2011, 05:54:49 AM
It is a totally brain dead argument (i.e. not calling anyone brain-dead)
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Beorn

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2011, 10:18:02 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 05, 2011, 08:43:52 AM
Quote from: trig on January 05, 2011, 05:54:49 AM
The argument about trips to Antarctica is just a ruse of the few remaining FE'rs: "if you have to make a terribly expensive trip to disprove me, then I can claim victory without any evidence on my side". It is a totally brain dead argument, but nobody has ever said FE'rs are geniuses.

It's not a brain dead argument. You're here making unverifiable claims which you have never seen or experienced. The burden of proof is on you to verify these claims. If you cannot do that then your theory is bunk.

Saying burden of proof and then ignoring or disregarding all the proof because of reasons like "conspiracy" or "I didn't witness it myself" is kinda sad though.
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Mrs. Peach

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2011, 10:22:27 AM »
Quote from: trig on January 05, 2011, 05:54:49 AM
The argument about trips to Antarctica is just a ruse of the few remaining FE'rs: "if you have to make a terribly expensive trip to disprove me, then I can claim victory without any evidence on my side". It is a totally brain dead argument, but nobody has ever said FE'rs are geniuses.


@Hessy
The entire quote is much clearer, don't you think, without your red-lettered add on edit?  Let us not argue anymore about this as I have no interest other than what's already been said.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 10:24:21 AM by Mrs. Peach »
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Moon squirter

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2011, 10:52:48 AM »
Quote from: Tom Bishop on January 05, 2011, 08:43:52 AM
Quote from: trig on January 05, 2011, 05:54:49 AM
The argument about trips to Antarctica is just a ruse of the few remaining FE'rs: "if you have to make a terribly expensive trip to disprove me, then I can claim victory without any evidence on my side". It is a totally brain dead argument, but nobody has ever said FE'rs are geniuses.

It's not a brain dead argument. You're here making unverifiable claims which you have never seen or experienced. The burden of proof is on you to verify these claims. If you cannot do that then your theory is bunk.

Wrong.  If you can knock down a theory, then (and only then) it is bunk.  That is how science works.  He has not.  People (as far as we know) circumnavigate Antarctica.

Same argument, same old flannel.  If people in modern times regularly circumnavigate Antarctica, it cuts no ice with Tom because Tom "believes" in the older and less verifiable accounts in his literature collection.

Tom's belief is religious in nature, he knows the "truth" and will therefore reject more compelling evidence because it *must* be wrong for some reason (either the circumnavigaters are mistaken or they are lying).  -The classic pseudoscienfic method.  Tom must know that you cannot have "truth" and "absolute proof" in the real world, and he still uses these concepts to construct endless arguments.

Tom, the burden of "proof" is on you to demonstrate (convincingly) that the countless people who circumnavigate Antarctica are not letting the truth.   

A theory or a claim is there to be knocked down, so knock away!!!!!




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Quote from: Tom Bishop on September 01, 2012, 01:00:09 PM
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Hessy

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2011, 04:14:30 AM »
Quote from: Mrs. Peach on January 05, 2011, 10:22:27 AM
Quote from: trig on January 05, 2011, 05:54:49 AM
The argument about trips to Antarctica is just a ruse of the few remaining FE'rs: "if you have to make a terribly expensive trip to disprove me, then I can claim victory without any evidence on my side". It is a totally brain dead argument, but nobody has ever said FE'rs are geniuses.


@Hessy
The entire quote is much clearer, don't you think, without your red-lettered add on edit?  Let us not argue anymore about this as I have no interest other than what's already been said.

I wouldn't call that an argument, but fair enough  :)
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FakeLiar

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Re: Antarctica circumnavigation facts and figures
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2011, 06:29:02 AM »
What bothers ME about this thread is to see Tom Bishop attacked like this.

He is answering questions as patiently as he can - seems like he carries the weight of this site almost alone, when it comes to the "roundies"'s questions.

Fact is, navigating Antarctica is almost impossible to "test", it's all ice, even if someone DID come back saying that they went all around it once and it took forever, PROVING flat earth - it would be easy for a round earth person to just say "you went around it several times, you were confused".

The opposite works too.   One could say, "You didn't prove a round earth - you just went down and looked around and turned back".

The idea of the direction of "what is south" is very confusing in the flat earth model.    Because we are taught (wrongly) that the earth is round and that Antarctica is a small pile of ice at the south pole, when in reality Antarctica surrounds the rest of the world, and the fact that antarctica is just ice - makes it very hard to understand (in a round earthers mind) just what they are doing when they go there.

You cannot go to the "other side" of the ice, but you THINK you are doing that.   And at any point you turn back, you are headed north - just like in the "round earth" model!   It's very hard to argue and win - no matter what side you are on - the "evidence" seems to support your belief, no matter which you believe!

So, after all of this, I am content, here we are, on a solid, still earth that we don't have to fly with, like so many ants - crawling around a balloon.    :)
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