Question for you guys about light.

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Lorddave

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2010, 03:10:29 AM »
The way we test to see if it is a particle is to see if it has mass.  To do this we test to see if it has momentum.  When the EM Wave hits an atom, some of the momentum is transferred to the atom and the rest is reflected back.  The energy doesn't get reflected back exactly though.  Instead the atom absorbs all the energy, the electrons go into a higher energy state, then the electrons drop back down, releasing some of the energy back.  This is what reflection is.  Now, when the atom ejected the energy it acted like a rocket engine or gas thruster and pushed the atom in the opposite direction very, very, very slightly.  

There's a ... device in which a spinner connected to 4 pads sits in a vacuum sealed container.  The pads face forward but can spin around a central shaft.  Each pad has white painted on one side and black on the other.  When hit with EM energy, the pads begin to move.  The white side, which reflect the most energy, move when the light hits it. The black side, which reflect the least energy, don't move as much so the momentum of the white sides aren't slowed as much.

And that is why, as far as I know, EM energy is both a photon and a wave: It's a wave that can generate momentum.

wat

Surely you know of the device I'm talking about.



AH!  Found it.
Crookes radiometer

Ok, so, as I thought, my explanation is not correct and has been removed.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2010, 03:19:12 AM by Lorddave »
Gone.

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sokarul

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2010, 05:53:50 AM »
The way we test to see if it is a particle is to see if it has mass.  To do this we test to see if it has momentum.  When the EM Wave hits an atom, some of the momentum is transferred to the atom and the rest is reflected back.  The energy doesn't get reflected back exactly though.  Instead the atom absorbs all the energy, the electrons go into a higher energy state, then the electrons drop back down, releasing some of the energy back.  This is what reflection is.  Now, when the atom ejected the energy it acted like a rocket engine or gas thruster and pushed the atom in the opposite direction very, very, very slightly.  

There's a ... device in which a spinner connected to 4 pads sits in a vacuum sealed container.  The pads face forward but can spin around a central shaft.  Each pad has white painted on one side and black on the other.  When hit with EM energy, the pads begin to move.  The white side, which reflect the most energy, move when the light hits it. The black side, which reflect the least energy, don't move as much so the momentum of the white sides aren't slowed as much.

And that is why, as far as I know, EM energy is both a photon and a wave: It's a wave that can generate momentum.

wat

Surely you know of the device I'm talking about.



AH!  Found it.
Crookes radiometer

Ok, so, as I thought, my explanation is not correct and has been removed.
The test is not to see if the particle has mass.  The test is to see if a massless particle can have momentum. 
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Hortensius

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2010, 06:10:25 AM »
The test is not to see if the particle has mass.  The test is to see if a massless particle can have momentum. 

Momentum doesn't require mass, it requires energy...
Quote from: Username
Horentius is correct.

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sokarul

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2010, 03:04:38 PM »
The test is not to see if the particle has mass.  The test is to see if a massless particle can have momentum. 

Momentum doesn't require mass, it requires energy...

Thank you for saying exactly what I said. 
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Parsifal

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2010, 03:38:05 PM »
Thank you for saying exactly what I said.

Since your post didn't mention energy, that can't have been exactly what you said.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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General Disarray

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2010, 05:30:16 PM »
As much as I hate to agree with Parsifal, you should study up on the wave-particle duality of light.
You don't want to make an enemy of me. I'm very powerful.

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2010, 07:38:45 PM »
How does asking about how polarization works not make any sense? And its not wasting time if I learn the answer

Asking about photons going up and down, and "a bunch of light waves" is what makes no sense. Most of us would be happy to provide clarification on minor points, or a pointer in the right direction, but FES is not a physics classroom.

So one should not ask questions that Parsifal deems stupid, for he might die of unwarranted self-importance

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2010, 07:43:28 PM »
As much as I hate to agree with Parsifal, you should study up on the wave-particle duality of light.

huh?

I was just asking if there was a chance a light wave oriented at 45 degrees could go through a vertical slit because of its vertical component, and if it would come out exactly vertical even if it started out at 45 degrees. there is no mention of particles here

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sokarul

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2010, 08:26:17 PM »
As much as I hate to agree with Parsifal, you should study up on the wave-particle duality of light.

huh?

I was just asking if there was a chance a light wave oriented at 45 degrees could go through a vertical slit because of its vertical component, and if it would come out exactly vertical even if it started out at 45 degrees. there is no mention of particles here
Yes the light can.  If you have two polarizers in line they will not stop all light until they are perpendicular to each other.   
ANNIHILATOR OF  SHIFTER

It's no slur if it's fact.

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Parsifal

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2010, 08:27:55 PM »
huh?

I was just asking if there was a chance a light wave oriented at 45 degrees could go through a vertical slit because of its vertical component, and if it would come out exactly vertical even if it started out at 45 degrees. there is no mention of particles here

Yes, there is a chance, that chance being 100%, but only half of the wave goes through (the vertical component). This has been explained to you already.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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AdmiralAckbar

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #40 on: August 15, 2010, 11:30:01 PM »
Parsifal why did you dodge Hortensius's response to your claim and electric and magnetic wave don't exist? I was actually eager to see your response to that.

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Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #41 on: August 16, 2010, 12:23:01 AM »
The test is not to see if the particle has mass.  The test is to see if a massless particle can have momentum. 

Momentum doesn't require mass, it requires energy...

the two are equivalent

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Hortensius

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #42 on: August 16, 2010, 12:25:06 AM »
The test is not to see if the particle has mass.  The test is to see if a massless particle can have momentum. 

Momentum doesn't require mass, it requires energy...

the two are equivalent

Equivalent but not the same.
Quote from: Username
Horentius is correct.

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Parsifal

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2010, 01:51:30 AM »
Parsifal why did you dodge Hortensius's response to your claim and electric and magnetic wave don't exist? I was actually eager to see your response to that.

I didn't dodge it, I ignored it completely.
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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Lorddave

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2010, 02:13:14 AM »
Gone.

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AdmiralAckbar

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #45 on: August 16, 2010, 06:55:50 PM »
Parsifal why did you dodge Hortensius's response to your claim and electric and magnetic wave don't exist? I was actually eager to see your response to that.

I didn't dodge it, I ignored it completely.

Whys that

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Parsifal

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #46 on: August 16, 2010, 07:41:42 PM »
I'm going to side with the white supremacists.

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AdmiralAckbar

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Re: Question for you guys about light.
« Reply #47 on: August 17, 2010, 12:15:25 AM »
Whys that

Irrelevant.

Its hard to take you seriously when you do stuff like this lol

You afraid you will say something incorrect?