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Offline Northrider5

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« on: August 14, 2006, 11:50:28 AM »
http://brasscheck.com/videos/middleeast/me5.html

These are the things that the US news channels never show to the populace of America. Watch.[/url]
Courtesy of your friendly neighbourhood Muslim.

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« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2006, 12:05:59 PM »
That is truly disturbing.

Why can't Isreal be left alone, and why can't they do the same to others?
he man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.

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« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2006, 06:10:28 PM »
Here's the thing.

1.) Israelis leave the Middle East.

2.) Palestinians / Muslims live in the area now know as Israel.

3.) Holocaust

4.) An international group (backed by U.S.) grants land to form the nation of Irael.

5.) Current inhabitants are forced to leave, or live as an occupied territory.

6.) Jews have a 'oh shit holocaust victims we get whatever we want because we got beat up' mentality.

7.)  U.S. has a strong Pro-Israeli stance, whether from the fact that the Jews have a 'moral claim' on the other citizens of the U.S. or because Jews have a high amount of political pull.

8.) U.S. backs Israel by providing weapons to the newly formed nation.

9.) Israeli's are assholes to the current population (read: Muslims) of Israel.

10.) Muslim 'terrorist' organizations (PLO, etc.) attempt to remove the state of Israel.

Note that I do not accept violence as a viable answer at ANY time for ANY reason.  More importantly, I do not believe that Civilians should experience war for any reason.

Israeli use of terror tactics on it's own populace is a war crime.

Stop the Israeli war machine.


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quot;Pleasure for man, is not a luxury, but a profound psychological need."
-Nathaniel Branden

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Offline Ubuntu

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« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2006, 07:22:28 PM »
Quote from: "Astantia"
6.) Jews have a 'oh shit holocaust victims we get whatever we want because we got beat up' mentality.


I don't think it's fair to call the events at the death camps "beatings up."

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« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2006, 07:23:32 PM »
no, it's not.

But the fact is, the Israeli's are starting to do the same thing that the Germans and Poles were doing to the jews before the holocaust.  And the U.S. is providing them the means to do it.
quot;Pleasure for man, is not a luxury, but a profound psychological need."
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Offline Ubuntu

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« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2006, 07:38:33 PM »
Quote from: "Astantia"
no, it's not.

But the fact is, the Israeli's are starting to do the same thing that the Germans and Poles were doing to the jews before the holocaust.  And the U.S. is providing them the means to do it.


Israel is a Jewish nation... A Jewish nation is oppressing Jews... (themselves)?

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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2006, 07:49:10 PM »
No, the Israelis are 'oppressing' the inhabitants of the occupied territory.
quot;Pleasure for man, is not a luxury, but a profound psychological need."
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Offline Ubuntu

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« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2006, 08:12:49 PM »
Quote from: "Astantia"
No, the Israelis are 'oppressing' the inhabitants of the occupied territory.


 :?:

Which inhabitants and what territory are you talking about?

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« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2006, 08:16:27 PM »
The muslim inhabitants of Israel.
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Offline Ubuntu

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« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2006, 08:19:24 PM »
Quote from: "Astantia"
The muslim inhabitants of Israel.


Ohh... thank you for clearing that up. But didn't you say Israel was oppressing the Jews?

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Offline Rick_James

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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2006, 08:57:26 PM »
No, he didn't - read carefully:


Quote from: "Astantia"
no, it's not.

But the fact is, the Israeli's are starting to do the same thing that the Germans and Poles were doing to the jews before the holocaust.  And the U.S. is providing them the means to do it.


He just didnt specify who Israel was oppressing

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Offline Ubuntu

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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2006, 09:07:28 PM »
This is how I read it (use commas please):


Quote
The Israeli's are starting to do the same thing

(that the Germans and Poles were doing)

to the jews

(before the holocaust).

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« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2006, 09:37:39 PM »
Quote from: "Astantia"
The muslim inhabitants of Israel.


I wasn't aware of Iraeli oppression of Muslim Israeli citizens- oppressive of non-citizen Muslims within their borders, yes...
You're right, though, about Israel's mentality of "We've had so much shit handed to us, we're not going to take it anymore. It's our turn, and the rest of the Middle East can kiss our collective ass if they don't like it." The Jews also have a notorious lack of regard for civilian casualties- they don't purposely inflict them, but they seem not to care when they do, and don't really bother to formulate their plans to minimize them. They just go after their targets and whatever civilians are in the way, too bad.
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Offline gc

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« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2006, 09:41:54 PM »
Quote from: "Astantia"
Here's the thing.

1.) Israelis leave the Middle East.

2.) Palestinians / Muslims live in the area now know as Israel.

3.) Holocaust

4.) An international group (backed by U.S.) grants land to form the nation of Irael.

5.) Current inhabitants are forced to leave, or live as an occupied territory.

6.) Jews have a 'oh shit holocaust victims we get whatever we want because we got beat up' mentality.

7.)  U.S. has a strong Pro-Israeli stance, whether from the fact that the Jews have a 'moral claim' on the other citizens of the U.S. or because Jews have a high amount of political pull.

8.) U.S. backs Israel by providing weapons to the newly formed nation.

9.) Israeli's are assholes to the current population (read: Muslims) of Israel.

10.) Muslim 'terrorist' organizations (PLO, etc.) attempt to remove the state of Israel.

Note that I do not accept violence as a viable answer at ANY time for ANY reason.  More importantly, I do not believe that Civilians should experience war for any reason.

Israeli use of terror tactics on it's own populace is a war crime.

Stop the Israeli war machine.


Umm not quite. More like:

1. Jews were living in palestine for hundreds of years.

2. More Jews started moving to Palestine.

3. Arabs and Jews start fighting in Palestine.

4. Britain and the U.N. decide to partition Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states in order to remove the conflict.

5. Surrounding Arab states (Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon etc...) attack Israel.

6. Since then, many groups have refused to recognize Israel, and continue to attack it in order to "wipe it off the map"

Do you think Jews don't deserve to be able to live in the middle east? If they can't get along peacefully (pre-1948) does it not make sense to separate them? Isn't that what you do when two people/groups are fighting? Some people in the middle east are determined to remove all Jews from the region. They weren't happy when palestine was one country, and now they aren't happy when it's divided into two.

By the way, to #9, Jews in many arab states are treated much worse than Arabs or Muslims are treated in Israel.

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« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2006, 10:35:30 PM »
Quote from: "gc"
Do you think Jews don't deserve to be able to live in the middle east? If they can't get along peacefully (pre-1948) does it not make sense to separate them? Isn't that what you do when two people/groups are fighting? Some people in the middle east are determined to remove all Jews from the region. They weren't happy when palestine was one country, and now they aren't happy when it's divided into two.


The problem is that they were arbitrarily separated. Many imperialist powers have used your logic when exiting a region- separating the Jews and Muslims in Israel, separating the Muslims and Hindus in Pakistan/India, separating the Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda. This arbitrary drawing-of-boundaries is always done without the consent of the people actually living in the region, and always serves only to inflame the hatred of the two groups for each other.
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Offline Ubuntu

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« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2006, 10:39:15 PM »
^^ Dysfunction, well put.

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« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2006, 11:47:36 PM »
I didn't write this- Iremember finding one thing wrong with it but I don't remember what.

1. Israel became a state in 1312 B.C., two millennia before Islam.

2. Arab refugees from Israel began calling themselves "Palestinians" in 1967, two decades after (modern) Israeli statehood.

3. After conquering the land in 1272 B.C., Jews ruled it for a thousand years and maintained a continuous presence there for 3,300 years.

4. The only Arab rule following conquest in 633 B.C. lasted just 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem was the Jewish capital. It was never the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even under Jordanian rule, (east) Jerusalem was not made the capital, and no Arab leader came to visit it.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the bible, but not once is it mentioned in the Curran.

7. King David founded Jerusalem; Muhammad never set foot in it.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem; Muslims face Mecca. If they are between the two cities, Muslims pray facing Mecca, with their backs to Jerusalem.

9. In 1948, Arab leaders urged their people to leave, promising to cleanse the land of Jewish presence. 68% of them fled without ever setting eyes on an Israeli soldier.

10. Virtually the entire Jewish population of Muslim countries had to flee as the result of violence and pogroms.

11. Some 630,000 Arabs left Israel in 1948, while close to a million Jews were forced to leave the Muslim countries.

12. In spite of the vast territories at their disposal, Arab refugees were deliberately prevented from assimilating into their host countries. Of 100 million refugees following World War 2, they are the only group to have never integrated with their co-religionists. Most of the Jewish refugees from Europe and Arab lands were settled in Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.

13. There are 22 Muslim countries, not counting Palestine. There is only one Jewish state. Arabs started all five wars against Israel, and lost every one of them.

14. Fattah and Hamas constitutions still call for the destruction of Israel. Israel ceded most of the West Bank and all of Gaza to the Palestinian authority, and even provided it with arms.

15. During the Jordanian occupation, Jewish holy sites were vandalized and were off limits to Jews. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian holy sites are accessible to all faiths.

16. United Nations Security Council up until 1990: 97 resolutions out of 175 were against Israel; in the general assembly 429 resolutions out of 690 were against Israel.

18. The U.N. was silent when the Jordanians destroyed 58 synagogues in the old city of Jerusalem. It remained silent while Jordan systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the mount of olives, and it remained silent when Jordan enforced apartheid laws preventing Jews from accessing the temple mount and western wall.
 belive this site to be a hoax. But belief is irrelevant in science so the debate goes on.

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Offline gc

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« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2006, 10:53:02 AM »
Quote from: "dysfunction"
Quote from: "gc"
Do you think Jews don't deserve to be able to live in the middle east? If they can't get along peacefully (pre-1948) does it not make sense to separate them? Isn't that what you do when two people/groups are fighting? Some people in the middle east are determined to remove all Jews from the region. They weren't happy when palestine was one country, and now they aren't happy when it's divided into two.


The problem is that they were arbitrarily separated. Many imperialist powers have used your logic when exiting a region- separating the Jews and Muslims in Israel, separating the Muslims and Hindus in Pakistan/India, separating the Hutus and Tutsis in Rwanda. This arbitrary drawing-of-boundaries is always done without the consent of the people actually living in the region, and always serves only to inflame the hatred of the two groups for each other.


The problem is that the arab states were opposed to the creation of a separate Jewish state, so that is why the UN decided on the partition.  In fact, the arab states were opposed to Jews living in the middle east period. That is why there was conflict between arabs and jews before Israel became a state. What was the UN & Britain supposed to do? Should they have kept palestine as a single state and allowed the violence to continue? They separated them because they thought it would bring peace. Obviously it didn't, but neither would keeping them as the same state, so it's a loose-loose situation. If Jews and arabs live together, violence. If Jews and arabs live in separate states, violence. Do you have a better solution?

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« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2006, 07:50:42 PM »
Durr.

Genocide.


(If you are taking me seriously, get examined.)
quot;Pleasure for man, is not a luxury, but a profound psychological need."
-Nathaniel Branden