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Is manuvering through space possible?

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three-dimensional-world

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Is manuvering through space possible?
« on: June 11, 2010, 03:57:51 AM »
Suppose you were in the vacuum of space - how could you move? You can't 'swim' like you could in water because there's no water to swim against.. for the same reason you can't use a propeller or jet engine because they need wind to work.

When you drop a cat it is possible for it to turn around in the air without making use of the air flow (I think) so perhaps a spaceship would have to employ a similar phenomenon to that for maneuvering in space. The most efficient method would be to modify gravity (i.e. bend space according to Einstiens space MINUS time theory) so that 'downhill' (in the 3D sense rather than literally downhill) and you just roll downhill to where you wanted to go.. the problem with this method is that the quantum gravity theory is not well understood enough to allow local perturbations especially as many people have wasted time with nonsense like wormholes and timetravel.

The most realistic method at the current stage appears to be intertia as defined by Newton, you need to model the solar systems motion accurately and propell yourself correctly so that you reach your destination simply by travelling as the cosmos takes you. This is the actually the basis of a computer game too. The main drawback of this method is the n-bodie problem but quantum computing might help to solve this.

So to summarize the prospects for space travel seem quite dire and the pessimistic conclusion would be that this explains why no tangible aliens have approached earth.
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three-dimensional-world

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2010, 04:00:24 AM »
oh I forgot to mention the ether, it might be possible to swin through the ether if you have sails made out of a holographic material which transcends matter but the details of this have not been worked out and realistically it doesn't seem promising.
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jackofhearts

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2010, 05:50:14 AM »
You seemed to give one of the explanations, inertia.  This is what NASA's done for a long time to send probes long distances to places like Mars and Venus.  To do this, they need an incredibly accurate measurement of all the forces active upon said probes during their trip, namely gravity.  If you believe in NASA, you know that they've harnassed gravity to send probes to their intended destination with incredible accuracy. 

In general, though, space craft use rockets/thrusters.  Swimming is impossible, because swimming relies on the action/reaction principle; you push backwards on the water, and you move forward.  It may sound weird, but if you think about it, it makes sense.  Here's a site that might explain more.
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Trekky0623

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2010, 09:54:16 AM »
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jackofhearts

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2010, 11:51:33 AM »
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SupahLovah

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2010, 05:45:04 PM »
Rockets/Thrusters. You introduce a form of propulsion.
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Parsifal

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2010, 06:18:29 PM »
Quote from: SupahLovah on June 11, 2010, 05:45:04 PM
Rockets/Thrusters. You introduce a form of propulsion.

This. lrn2conservationofmomentum
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General Disarray

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2010, 08:46:51 PM »
Bring stuff on your spacecraft and throw it backwards out of your ship really fast.

The usual method of doing this is to bring something combustible, burn it, and direct the exhaust behind you. It moves backwards and you move forward.

The ether does not exist.
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Trekky0623

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2010, 05:00:06 AM »
1. Point at the target.
2. Fire rocket until you reach desired speed.
3. Drift 'til you get there.

Disregarding complications like gravity from other objects, etc. which would cause you to have to rethink your initial course.
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jackofhearts

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2010, 10:23:58 AM »
At this point, I still don't understand why it's impossible to go into space, as FE'ers so ferverently suggest.
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Nolhekh

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2010, 03:15:31 PM »
Quote from: three-dimensional-world on June 11, 2010, 03:57:51 AM
When you drop a cat it is possible for it to turn around in the air without making use of the air flow (I think) so perhaps a spaceship would have to employ a similar phenomenon to that for maneuvering in space.

A spaceship could in fact do this, but it's not necessary, and likely impractical.  The cat uses something we call the law of conservation of angular momentum, which means that when it brings it's weight closer to the axis of rotation, it will rotate faster.  When it spreads it's legs it'll rotate slower, giving it some, but not absolute, control over it's orientation.  A spacecraft relying on this method would have to be already rotating for it to work, and it would only be able to control the speed of rotation on only one axis.  Instead spacecraft use thrusters, which can, if correctly designed, give them absolute control over their orientation.
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Raist

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2010, 11:14:06 AM »
Quote from: three-dimensional-world on June 11, 2010, 03:57:51 AM
Suppose you were in the vacuum of space - how could you move? You can't 'swim' like you could in water because there's no water to swim against.. for the same reason you can't use a propeller or jet engine because they need wind to work.

When you drop a cat it is possible for it to turn around in the air without making use of the air flow (I think) so perhaps a spaceship would have to employ a similar phenomenon to that for maneuvering in space. The most efficient method would be to modify gravity (i.e. bend space according to Einstiens space MINUS time theory) so that 'downhill' (in the 3D sense rather than literally downhill) and you just roll downhill to where you wanted to go.. the problem with this method is that the quantum gravity theory is not well understood enough to allow local perturbations especially as many people have wasted time with nonsense like wormholes and timetravel.

The most realistic method at the current stage appears to be intertia as defined by Newton, you need to model the solar systems motion accurately and propell yourself correctly so that you reach your destination simply by travelling as the cosmos takes you. This is the actually the basis of a computer game too. The main drawback of this method is the n-bodie problem but quantum computing might help to solve this.

So to summarize the prospects for space travel seem quite dire and the pessimistic conclusion would be that this explains why no tangible aliens have approached earth.

You throw an object out the back and you then go forward. I don't see how that's complicated.
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jackofhearts

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2010, 11:18:31 AM »
Quote from: Raist on June 13, 2010, 11:14:06 AM
You throw an object out the back and you then go forward. I don't see how that's complicated.

I still fail to see why FE'ers insist sustained space flight is impossible.
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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2010, 03:26:34 PM »
Quote from: jackofhearts on June 13, 2010, 11:18:31 AM
Quote from: Raist on June 13, 2010, 11:14:06 AM
You throw an object out the back and you then go forward. I don't see how that's complicated.

I still fail to see why FE'ers insist sustained space flight is impossible.

Lurk moar. There are countless threads on this.
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jackofhearts

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2010, 03:37:00 PM »
Quote from: EnglshGentleman on June 13, 2010, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: jackofhearts on June 13, 2010, 11:18:31 AM
Quote from: Raist on June 13, 2010, 11:14:06 AM
You throw an object out the back and you then go forward. I don't see how that's complicated.

I still fail to see why FE'ers insist sustained space flight is impossible.

Lurk moar. There are countless threads on this.

I will, as soon as someone fixes the retarded search function and fixes the FAQ.
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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2010, 03:48:10 PM »
Quote from: jackofhearts on June 13, 2010, 03:37:00 PM
Quote from: EnglshGentleman on June 13, 2010, 03:26:34 PM
Quote from: jackofhearts on June 13, 2010, 11:18:31 AM
Quote from: Raist on June 13, 2010, 11:14:06 AM
You throw an object out the back and you then go forward. I don't see how that's complicated.

I still fail to see why FE'ers insist sustained space flight is impossible.

Lurk moar. There are countless threads on this.

I will, as soon as someone fixes the retarded search function and fixes the FAQ.

Or maybe you need to stop being so retarded.

Click the "search" button.
Click the "advanced search button.
Type in, "Space Flight".
Click the "topic only" tab.
Search.

It really isn't that difficult.
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jackofhearts

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2010, 04:42:35 PM »
I lurked, and the only excuse for "sustained spaceflight is not possible" = Conspiracy.  That, and, under UA, the Earth would eventually catch up to whatever craft tried to escape the Earth.

So really, sustained space fligth is only 'not possible' under FET...

...meaning it's perfectly attainable (and has been attained) under RET.  Therefore, I see no reason why people are convinced we haven't achieved sustained space flight.
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Parsifal

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2010, 04:54:45 PM »
Quote from: jackofhearts on June 13, 2010, 04:42:35 PM
Therefore, I see no reason why people are convinced we haven't achieved sustained space flight.

Due to this bit:

Quote from: jackofhearts on June 13, 2010, 04:42:35 PM
So really, sustained space fligth is only 'not possible' under FET...
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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2010, 04:58:22 PM »
Quote from: jackofhearts on June 13, 2010, 04:42:35 PM
Therefore, I see no reason why people are convinced we haven't achieved sustained space flight.

You answered you own question

Quote from: jackofhearts on June 13, 2010, 04:42:35 PM
I lurked, and the only excuse for "sustained spaceflight is not possible" = Conspiracy.  That, and, under UA, the Earth would eventually catch up to whatever craft tried to escape the Earth.

So really, sustained space flight is only 'not possible' under FET...

What is possible under RE is irrelevant to the group of people you are addressing. It doesn't matter what is and isn't possible under RE when we are talking about FE
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jackofhearts

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2010, 04:58:57 PM »
That's only when one assumes (incorrectly) that the Earth is flat.
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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2010, 05:01:21 PM »
Quote from: jackofhearts on June 13, 2010, 04:58:57 PM
That's only when one assumes (incorrectly) that the Earth is flat.

Do you not get it? That's the point dude. FE'er start with the assumption that FE is correct, just as RE'ers start with the assumption that RE is correct. When you ask a question towards FE'ers, presume that you will be receiving a FE answer.
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jackofhearts

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2010, 05:04:37 PM »
Well, considering that the only reasons sustained space flight isn't possible under FET is due to the "Conspiracy" and UA (which has been disproved), that leaves the Conspiracy, which also has been disproved. 

That narrows the reasons sustained spaceflight is impossible down to zero, implying that sustained space flight is perfectly attainable in FET.
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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2010, 05:07:10 PM »
Quote from: jackofhearts on June 13, 2010, 05:04:37 PM
Well, considering that the only reasons sustained space flight isn't possible under FET is due to the "Conspiracy" and UA (which has been disproved), that leaves the Conspiracy, which also has been disproved. 

That narrows the reasons sustained spaceflight is impossible down to zero, implying that sustained space flight is perfectly attainable in FET.

Please show me where UA and Conspiracy have been disproved. Just because FE'ers don't care to post in the 87th conspiracy thread, doesn't mean that it means that the conspiracy has been debunked.
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jackofhearts

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2010, 05:11:17 PM »
Quote from: EnglshGentleman on June 13, 2010, 03:26:34 PM
Lurk moar. There are countless threads on this.
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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2010, 05:17:14 PM »
Quote from: jackofhearts on June 13, 2010, 05:11:17 PM
Quote from: EnglshGentleman on June 13, 2010, 03:26:34 PM
Lurk moar. There are countless threads on this.

Yep, I don't see either debunked in any threads.
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jackofhearts

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2010, 05:21:47 PM »
Pfft, well I know for a fact that there is evidence out there, you just have to lurk harder.

My point here is that FE'ers do that all the time, then get pissed when we do it to them.
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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2010, 05:30:25 PM »
Quote from: jackofhearts on June 13, 2010, 05:21:47 PM
Pfft, well I know for a fact that there is evidence out there, you just have to lurk harder.

My point here is that FE'ers do that all the time, then get pissed when we do it to them.

Hmmm right, cuz I'm so totally pissed. If you make a claim on FE, than it is your responsibility to back it up. You claimed that the conspiracy was debunked, which means you have to show evidence for it.
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SupahLovah

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #27 on: July 04, 2010, 04:58:51 AM »
OBJECTION!
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Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2010, 09:36:24 AM »
Quote
Suppose you were in the vacuum of space - how could you move?

Download Orbiter and learn exactly how one manoeuvres in space.
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/home.php

For Parsifal's information it's free software I believe.
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Raist

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Re: Is manuvering through space possible?
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2010, 09:19:46 PM »
Quote from: Chris Spaghetti on July 04, 2010, 09:36:24 AM
Quote
Suppose you were in the vacuum of space - how could you move?

Download Orbiter and learn exactly how one manoeuvres in space.
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/home.php

For Parsifal's information it's free software I believe.

But he'd have to install wine to run it.
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