Lunar Parallax Experiment

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Drdevice

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Lunar Parallax Experiment
« on: March 17, 2010, 12:33:42 PM »
I will be testing Lunar parallax to determine its distance from the earth to prove that it is further than 3,000 miles away.

Me and my brother are both located in the USA I am in Washington, He is in Ohio.

Here is a list of moon rise and set times for Fremont, Ohio


            o  ,    o  ,                                    FREMONT, OHIO                             Astronomical Applications Dept.
Location: W083 07, N41 21                         Rise and Set for the Moon for 2010                  U. S. Naval Observatory   (guess that makes me part of the conspiracy)
                                                         Eastern Standard Time                                                       
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                       
          Jan.          Feb.          Mar.          Apr.          May           June          July          Aug.          Sept.         Oct.         Nov.         Dec. 
Day Rise   Set   Rise  Set    Rise  Set    Rise  Set    Rise  Set    Rise  Set    Rise  Set    Rise  Set    Rise  Set    Rise  Set    Rise  Set    Rise  Set
      h m   h m   h m   h m   h m   h m    h m  h m    h m  h m    h m   h m   h m   h m   h m   h m   h m   h m   h m   h m   h m   h m    h m  h m
01  1833 0843  2117 0851  2004 0715  2233 0717  2316 0726  2338 0915  2252 1004  2230 1154  2307 1355         1423  0136 1438  0302 1407
02  1953 0923  2231 0918  2120 0744  2339 0758         0824          1016  2313 1103  2300 1256         1452  0010 1503  0249 1507  0415 1440
03  2111 0956  2344 0946  2234 0813         0845  0002 0924  0003 1116  2336 1202  2337 1401  0006 1544  0123 1538  0403 1536  0528 1519
04  2226 1025         1015  2345 0846  0037 0939  0039 1026  0026 1215         1303          1505  0114 1629  0238 1609  0519 1608  0639 1605
05  2338 1051  0054 1048         0923  0126 1037  0111 1127  0048 1314  0001 1406  0023 1608  0228 1708  0354 1639  0634 1645  0744 1658
06         1117  0202 1125  0053 1005  0208 1137  0138 1228  0110 1415  0029 1511  0118 1705  0345 1742  0511 1709  0749 1728  0842 1758
07  0048 1144  0305 1209  0154 1054  0242 1238  0202 1327  0134 1517  0103 1618  0224 1756  0504 1813  0628 1740  0859 1818  0930 1901
08  0157 1213  0402 1259  0247 1148  0311 1339  0224 1427  0200 1622  0144 1723  0337 1838  0622 1843  0745 1815  1001 1914  1011 2005
09  0305 1247  0452 1354  0333 1246  0336 1439  0246 1527  0232 1730  0235 1825  0455 1915  0740 1913  0901 1854  1055 2015  1044 2108
10  0411 1326  0534 1453  0410 1347  0359 1539  0309 1629  0309 1837  0337 1920  0615 1947  0857 1945  1013 1939  1139 2118  1112 2209
11  0512 1411  0610 1554  0442 1447  0422 1639  0334 1734  0356 1942  0449 2007  0733 2017  1012 2021  1119 2031  1215 2221  1138 2309
12  0607 1503  0640 1655  0509 1548  0444 1740  0402 1840  0452 2041  0605 2046  0850 2046  1125 2102  1216 2129  1245 2322  1201     
13  0654 1600  0706 1756  0534 1648  0507 1843  0436 1948  0559 2131  0723 2119  1005 2115  1233 2149  1304 2230  1312         1223 0008
14  0734 1701  0729 1856  0556 1748  0533 1948  0517 2054  0712 2213  0841 2149  1120 2147  1334 2241  1344 2331  1336 0022  1246 0107
15  0808 1802  0751 1956  0618 1848  0603 2054  0607 2156  0827 2248  0956 2217  1232 2224  1426 2339  1417         1358  0121  1311 0206
16  0836 1903  0812 2056  0640 1950  0638 2201  0707 2250  0943 2319  1110 2245  1341 2305  1509         1445  0033  1421 0220  1339 0307
17  0901 2003  0834 2157  0703 2053  0721 2305  0814 2336  1057 2347  1222 2314  1445 2353  1546 0039  1510 0133  1445 0319  1411 0409
18  0923 2103  0858 2301  0730 2158  0813         0926          1209         1333 2346  1541         1616  0140  1533 0233  1511 0420  1450 0513
19  0945 2202  0925         0800 2304  0915 0003  1040 0014  1321 0014  1443          1629 0047  1643 0241  1556 0331  1540 0522  1537 0616
20  1006 2303  0957 0006  0837         1023 0054  1154 0047  1431 0041  1550 0023  1710 0145  1707 0341  1618 0430  1616 0626  1634 0717
21  1028         1036 0112  0922 0009  1135 0137  1306 0116  1542 0111  1651 0106  1744 0246  1729 0440  1643 0530  1658 0729  1738 0811
22  1053 0005  1125 0218  1017 0111  1249 0213  1418 0143  1651 0144  1745 0156  1813 0347  1752 0539  1710 0631  1748 0831  1849 0858
23  1122 0110  1225 0320  1121 0208  1403 0244  1529 0210  1757 0223  1831 0251  1839 0448  1814 0639  1741 0734  1847 0928  2002 0939
24  1158 0217  1334 0415  1232 0256  1516 0313  1641 0238  1856 0309  1909 0351  1902 0548  1839 0739  1818 0837  1953 1019  2116 1013
25  1242 0326  1450 0503  1347 0338  1630 0340  1753 0309  1949 0401  1942 0453  1924 0647  1907 0840  1902 0940  2103 1102  2229 1044
26  1337 0433  1609 0543  1503 0413  1744 0408  1902 0345  2032 0459  2009 0555  1946 0746  1939 0942  1954 1039  2214 1139  2341 1113
27  1444 0535  1729 0617  1620 0444  1858 0438  2007 0426  2109 0600  2034 0655  2009 0845  2017 1045  2054 1134  2326 1211         1141
28  1600 0629  1847 0647  1736 0513  2010 0511  2105 0515  2140 0702  2056 0755  2034 0945  2103 1147  2201 1221         1241   0052 1210
29  1721 0713                  1852 0541  2119 0550  2155 0611  2206 0804  2118 0854  2103 1047  2158 1245  2311 1302  0038 1309  0204 1241
30  1842 0751                  2007 0610  2222 0635  2236 0710  2230 0905  2140 0953  2136 1150  2300 1337          1337  0149 1337  0316 1317
31  2001 0822                  2121 0641                  2310 0812                  2204 1053  2217 1253                 0023 1409                   0426 1359

                                             Add one hour for daylight time, if and when in use.

Which is 3 hours ahead of my home here in Everett, Washington

             o  ,    o  ,                                 EVERETT, WASHINGTON                          Astronomical Applications Dept.
Location: W122 13, N47 58                         Rise and Set for the Moon for 2010                   U. S. Naval Observatory       
                                                                                                       Washington, DC  20392-5420     
                                                         Pacific Standard Time                                                       
                                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                     
          Jan.          Feb.          Mar.          Apr.          May           June          July          Aug.         Sept.        Oct.           Nov.          Dec. 
Day Rise  Set     Rise  Set   Rise  Set    Rise  Set    Rise  Set    Rise  Set    Rise  Set    Rise  Set   Rise  Set     Rise  Set    Rise  Set    Rise  Set
      h m  h m     h m  h m    h m  h m    h m  h m    h m  h m    h m  h m    h m  h m    h m  h m    h m  h m     h m  h m    h m   h m   h m   h m
01  1757 0847  2104 0831  1954 0653  2242 0635  2326 0640  2332 0840  2232 0943  2154 1151  2221 1406  2332 1427  0114 1420  0256 1334
02  1924 0919  2224 0852  2116 0715  2350 0712         0739  2352 0946  2249 1047  2220 1259  2322 1503          1501  0234 1443  0415 1403
03  2048 0946  2343 0914  2236 0739         0758  0008 0843         1051  2307 1151  2253 1408          1551  0051 1530  0354 1507  0533 1438
04  2209 1008         0938  2353 0806  0048 0852  0041 0949  0010 1155  2327 1257  2337 1516  0033 1631  0213 1555  0516 1534  0648 1521
05  2327 1029  0059 1006         0839  0135 0952  0107 1055  0027 1300  2351 1405         1619  0153 1704  0335 1619  0637 1606  0755 1613
06         1049  0211 1040  0104 0918  0213 1057  0129 1200  0044 1406          1516  0032 1715  0317 1732  0458 1643  0756 1645  0851 1714
07  0043 1110  0317 1121  0206 1006  0242 1202  0148 1305  0103 1514  0021 1627  0141 1801  0442 1756  0622 1708  0909 1732  0936 1820
08  0158 1135  0415 1211  0258 1102  0306 1308  0206 1409  0125 1624  0059 1735  0300 1837  0606 1820  0745 1738  1012 1829  1012 1929
09  0311 1204  0503 1308  0340 1203  0326 1413  0223 1515  0152 1737  0149 1836  0424 1907  0731 1844  0907 1812  1102 1932  1040 2036
10  0421 1239  0541 1411  0414 1307  0344 1518  0241 1622  0226 1848  0253 1928  0550 1933  0854 1910  1023 1855  1142 2039  1103 2143
11  0524 1323  0612 1517  0440 1413  0401 1623  0301 1732  0310 1954  0408 2009  0714 1956  1015 1941  1130 1946  1214 2146  1123 2247
12  0619 1416  0636 1623  0502 1519  0419 1730  0325 1844  0407 2051  0531 2041  0838 2019  1133 2018  1226 2044  1239 2253  1142 2351
13  0703 1515  0657 1728  0521 1624  0437 1838  0354 1957  0516 2136  0655 2108  0959 2043  1244 2103  1311 2148  1301 2357  1200     
14  0739 1620  0715 1833  0539 1729  0458 1949  0432 2106  0634 2212  0818 2132  1120 2110  1345 2155  1346 2254  1320         1218 0054
15  0808 1726  0732 1938  0556 1835  0523 2100  0521 2207  0755 2241  0940 2154  1237 2142  1435 2255  1414         1338 0101  1238 0159
16  0831 1832  0748 2044  0613 1942  0555 2211  0622 2258  0917 2305  1100 2216  1350 2220  1514 2359  1437 0000  1356 0205  1302 0305
17  0850 1937  0805 2151  0632 2050  0636 2317  0733 2339  1037 2327  1218 2240  1456 2306  1546         1457 0105  1415 0309  1331 0412
18  0908 2042  0825 2300  0653 2201  0727         0850          1155 2349  1335 2307  1552         1612 0104  1515 0209  1437 0414  1406 0520
19  0924 2147  0847         0720 2312  0830 0014  1010 0011  1312          1450 2340  1637 0001  1633 0210  1533 0313  1502 0522  1452 0626
20  0941 2253  0915 0010  0753         0942 0101  1129 0038  1429 0010  1600          1714 0102  1652 0315  1552 0417  1534 0630  1549 0727
21  0958         0951 0122  0836 0020  1100 0138  1248 0100  1545 0035  1702 0020  1743 0206  1710 0419  1611 0522  1613 0738  1657 0819
22  1018 0001  1038 0230  0930 0124  1220 0208  1405 0122  1659 0104  1755 0109  1807 0312  1728 0523  1634 0628  1703 0841  1812 0901
23  1043 0111  1139 0332  1037 0218  1340 0233  1523 0143  1807 0139  1838 0206  1827 0418  1746 0627  1701 0736  1804 0937  1931 0936
24  1114 0224  1252 0425  1153 0302  1500 0256  1641 0206  1908 0222  1912 0309  1846 0523  1806 0732  1735 0844  1913 1025  2051 1005
25  1155 0337  1414 0507  1314 0338  1620 0317  1758 0232  1958 0314  1939 0415  1903 0627  1829 0838  1817 0949  2028 1103  2209 1030
26  1250 0447  1540 0540  1437 0406  1740 0339  1911 0303  2038 0414  2002 0521  1920 0731  1858 0946  1909 1050  2145 1134  2327 1053
27  1400 0547  1706 0607  1600 0431  1900 0404  2019 0341  2109 0519  2021 0627  1939 0835  1933 1053  2012 1142  2303 1201         1115
28  1521 0636  1831 0631  1722 0453  2017 0432  2116 0429  2135 0626  2039 0732  1959 0941  2018 1157  2122 1226         1225  0045 1139
29  1648 0714                  1845 0515  2130 0506  2203 0525  2156 0733  2056 0836  2024 1047  2113 1255  2237 1301  0020 1247  0202 1205
30  1816 0744                  2006 0538  2234 0549  2239 0627  2215 0838  2113 0940  2054 1155  2219 1345  2355 1331  0138 1310  0319 1237
31  1941 0809                  2126 0604                  2308 0733                  2132 1045  2132 1302                         1357                  0433 1316

                                             Add one hour for daylight time, if and when in use.


NOTE: BLANK SPACES IN THE TABLE INDICATE THAT A RISING OR A SETTING DID NOT OCCUR DURING THAT 24 HR INTERVAL.

Parameters of Experiment:

Me and my brother will meet up with each other over spring break. I will give him the same equipment that I will be using. Then on three (more if necessary or requested) nights or days (depending when the moon is visible) We will measure the most eastward side of the moon and how far it is from the western horizon. If that is not visible then we will measure the top most "point" on the sliver that is visible.




This is the equation we will be using to figure out parallax and how far away the moon is from each observer. Where H is how far away the moon is from the "flat earth" and X is how far apart we are from each other.

Comments?

« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 12:50:04 AM by Drdevice »

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EnigmaZV

  • 3471
Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2010, 12:53:26 PM »
I would suggest posting the day/time you're doing your experiment, as we can get several points across the country at the same time, the more triangles you can make, the more accurate a measurement you can achieve.  Also, you may have a hard time finding out exactly how far apart you are from any other observer unless you've personally measured the distance, as maps may not be 100% accurate.
I don't know what you're implying, but you're probably wrong.

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Drdevice

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2010, 01:02:30 PM »
I'm gonna use http://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~cvm/latlongdist.html. If you have a GPS device or some other way of determining accurately your longitude and latitude makesure you put it on your time card.

We need to meet up and I will give him the equipment. I will post the equipment and pictures when I get them. We will both take pictures of our measurements with a time card next to it.

Any one else who wants to participate is more than welcome. I will post an announcement when we plan to start the testing. We will need to insta message or call each other however to make it synchronized. Me and my bro use skype, if that's acceptable to every one as we can use the history tool to copy and past the entire conversation onto this site.

All measurements for this experiment shall be recorded in the metric system.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 01:28:41 PM by Drdevice »

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Drdevice

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2010, 01:44:51 PM »
If any of you know of a better way then making your own scope for this let me know.

Here we go, a quick 101 on making your own scope.

Get a tube about 30cm (1ft) in length and 4cm (1.5inch) high

Drill two holes on each end. These holes should go through to the other side (4 holes total per side) and should be about 90 degrees apart.

Run a string from one hole to its partner across the tube (making a t or X) and tie them off

Get two clamps that will fit tightly around the tube once they are tight. Make sure they have tabs with holes through them.

Get a protractor and drill two holes in it (one at each end). Make the holes the same size as ones in the clamps.

Next get some bolts that will fit snugly through the holes in the clamps and protractor. Find the matching nuts.

Next take your weight and tie a string to it. Then tie the other end of the string to the tube, make sure it is at the exact center.

Position the protractor so that it is in the center of the tube. Put the clamps on and bolt the protractor to the tube and clamps.

Make sure that it is tight and wont move.

You now have a "telescope" with cross hairs and a way to find the angle of the object/point you are looking at. Just line the two sets of cross hairs up and away you go.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 01:27:30 PM by Drdevice »

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Drdevice

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2010, 12:28:26 PM »
Here is what I managed to put together. I will make a video of how to make one when I build the second one.


Here's it wound up so you can see the weight



My brother comes out next week, I think he is staying for a week. When he gets here we will work out when to do the test. Based on weather reports and moon rise and set times.

With experimentation I will determined what it should be about, I'm guessing about  +/- 2 degrees in accuracy at the moment. I will test it in full as soon as I perfect the cross hairs. The string I'm using was meant for kites so it doesn't like to knot very well.

What this means

Let us use the triangle above. Lets say c measures 30 degrees and b measures 150 degrees, with x being 1000 meters.

C = 30o
B = 150o
x = 1Km

A = B - C = 150 - 30 = 120o
Rc = Sine(C)X = Sine(30o)1000 = 577.35 meters
       Sine(A)       Sine(120o)

h = Sine(180o-B)Rc = Sine(180o-150o)577.35 = (1/2) 577.35 = 288.665 meters

These would be the perfect answers. Now we modify for +/- 2o

C = 28o
B = 152o
x = 1Km

A = B - C = 152 - 28 = 124o
Rc = Sine(C)X = Sine(28o)1000 = 566.285 meters
       Sine(A)       Sine(124o)

h = Sine(180o-B)Rc = Sine(180o-152o)566.285 = 265.855 meters

This is the low end. Below is the high end.

C = 32o
B = 148o
x = 1Km

A = B - C = 148 - 32 = 116o
Rc = Sine(C)X = Sine(32o)1000 = 589.589 meters
       Sine(A)       Sine(116o)

h = Sine(180o-B)Rc = Sine(180o-148o)589.589 = 312.435 meters

This gives us the range of 265.855 - 312.435. That's a difference of 46.58 meters or +/-16%

As I said the 2o was a guess at the possible error margin. I will test it with objects that I can measure the distance of.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 05:57:01 PM by Drdevice »

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Crustinator

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2010, 12:36:21 PM »
I applaud you for your scientific efforts to determine the position of the sun.

However:

1) Bendy light makes all measurementation impossible.
2) The moon is able to reduce its apparent location and size by a simple transfer of molecules.
3) All instrumentation used to look at celestial objects has been tampered by NASA.
4) Distances on a flt earth are unknown, you cannot know the distance between Washington and Ohio.

My brother comes out next week

We have a policy of "don't ask don't tell" here at TFES.

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Drdevice

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2010, 01:50:16 PM »
My brother coming out pertains to the experiment in the fact that he determines the date at which it will be preformed.

1)Bendy light was disproved (by this equation unsurprisingly) and a new theory is being developed to replace it. But that doesn't matter because we can still calculate the position of the moon with bendy light because it bends exactly as much as the curve of the earth. So we can use the same equations as in EnaG to determine its position.

Horizon
Quote
d = sqrt(13h) where d is the distance to the horizon in Km and h is the hight above sea level


2) What? Please elaborate I am unfamiliar with this one.

3) Yes I know all about that. You see while I was making it two of the Antarctic guard and their robot penguins along with a dinosaur embasitor from the other side of the ice wall came and stole my mustache. They told me to sabotage my device and said they would return my mustache once my results came back inconclusive.

4) I am using the 2*pi*d model. As long as the people are all located above the equator then the results will match that of a flat earth.



Distortion of the map only begins once you pass the 0o mark.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2010, 05:54:02 PM by Drdevice »

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Drdevice

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2010, 04:44:42 PM »
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Building the Scope Part 1
" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Building the Scope Part 2

Total time to make scope (with out cross hairs) 30 min. I of course wasn't using a drill and most of that time was spent drilling through the protractor. Total cost of all materials (keep in mind I made 2) $25 US. That includes buying the drill bits, so if you have some dullish ones lying around I would use those.

I'm gonna throw this in here too. While I'm figuring out the distance of the moon I will do the equation backwards as well, only solving for x instead of h, and having h = 3000.

Since it is imposible for me to verify how far away my brother is, even if I drove it, Solving for x would show how far away he would have to be to get the angles we are getting if the moon where only 3,000 miles away.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 02:00:48 AM by Drdevice »

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Crustinator

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2010, 04:50:47 PM »
I applaud your efforts as an astronomer and zetete.

Just be careful you don't get trolled hard.

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Drdevice

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2010, 02:06:45 AM »
If trolling ever appears to be getting out of hand I will take all the information and good questions (non troll) out of this thread and put it in a new one all organized so it can at least be looked at with out having to sift through the trolls.

But seeing as you and enigmanzv are the only one whom have posted in it besides me, and as far as I know you two and lord willmore are the only ones who have read it. I am not to worried at the moment. Hell If it wasn't for the fact that I keep updating it I'm almost certain it would have vanished by know just like the moon thread.

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Lord Xenu

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2010, 03:54:47 AM »
This experiment will probably prove that the Earth is round, but FE'ers will blame it on bendy light, so you won't make any real progress in converting them back to round earthers.

Also, your avatar makes it look like you have strange growths on your face.

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parsec

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2010, 05:51:53 PM »
The equations derived in the OP are correct only if one assumes straight line propagation of light. This is in clear contradiction with Bendy Light Theory.

Even then, there are several assumptions made. Namely, three points (A, B and C in this case) uniquely determine a plane. There is no guarantee, however that this plane is vertical, i.e. a hanged string should not necessarily lie in the plane of the triangle. Similarly, there is no guarantee that h is the height of the Moon from the surface of the Earth.

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Drdevice

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2010, 06:08:12 PM »
Any suggestions, parsec, as to how to over come some of the problems you have listed?

I was working on coming up with an equation to remove the problems with bendy light. You are quite good at math as I have seen. Any help on improving my equations would be appreciated highly.

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parsec

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2010, 06:31:02 PM »
sorry, no. BTW, what you are doing has been done before. You will get a result of the order of 3000 miles, which is consistent with FE.

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Drdevice

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2010, 06:59:52 PM »
Well I am fixing some of the equations to acomidate hieght above sea level. Will post pictures with updated equations later. Still need to work out curvature/bendy light equations, it's not a high priority as I will collect as much data as possible(height above sea level, long/lat, angle, direction facing at time of mesurment, phase of the moon, etc.)

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Lord Xenu

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2010, 02:02:11 AM »
Well I am fixing some of the equations to acomidate hieght above sea level. Will post pictures with updated equations later. Still need to work out curvature/bendy light equations, it's not a high priority as I will collect as much data as possible(height above sea level, long/lat, angle, direction facing at time of mesurment, phase of the moon, etc.)

What should be a high priority is fixing the growths on your face.

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flyingmonkey

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2010, 02:10:41 AM »
Well I am fixing some of the equations to acomidate hieght above sea level. Will post pictures with updated equations later. Still need to work out curvature/bendy light equations, it's not a high priority as I will collect as much data as possible(height above sea level, long/lat, angle, direction facing at time of mesurment, phase of the moon, etc.)

What should be a high priority is fixing the growths on your face.


His face doesn't have growths, they only appear there due to bendy light.

Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2010, 04:08:33 AM »
sorry, no. BTW, what you are doing has been done before. You will get a result of the order of 3000 miles, which is consistent with FE.

Therefore are you saying that light coming from the moon does not bend? Because if with direct observation he sees 3000 miles and in FE theory that's the right value... Bendy light phenomena can't happen here because he would see a different distance!

AND if bendy light does not apply to the moon... explain moonrises-moonsets.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 04:10:37 AM by corleone »

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parsec

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2010, 05:46:21 AM »
Bendy light would make the apparent height of any celestial object lower than its actual value. Also, it does not necessarily mean that the continuations of light rays coming from the same body should intersect at the same point for different observers. Let me illustrate what I mean by a simple picture:


Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2010, 06:23:04 AM »
Can I use the cosmic ray shadow of the moon as evidence that its where optical observations put it?

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markjo

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2010, 06:24:35 AM »
Bendy light would make the apparent height of any celestial object lower than its actual value. Also, it does not necessarily mean that the continuations of light rays coming from the same body should intersect at the same point for different observers. Let me illustrate what I mean by a simple picture:



Then that would suggest that at different locations, the sun would appear to be a different height above the FE.  So that means that bendy light makes it impossible to accurately calculate the height of the sun.  Then again, even if light doesn't bend, observers at different locations still get different results, so I guess that nothing has changed.  :-\
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

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markjo

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2010, 06:26:25 AM »
Can I use the cosmic ray shadow of the moon as evidence that its where optical observations put it?

Not if cosmic rays are EM radiation.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2010, 06:28:29 AM »
nope, almost none are

Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2010, 07:20:39 AM »
That's interesting, parsec. So, according to that diagram, if we, instead of two angles, we measure, let's say, six angles from different spots we will get many different distances earth-moon depending on what angles do we compare? This would be a nice way of proving/disproving BL theory, better and simplier than my own experiment.

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Drdevice

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2010, 11:31:16 AM »


This equation removes the height variable from the angle.  This is then added to the distance. I am working on finding out how to compensate for bendy light, as you can see I worked it into this equation.

I worked out how to compensate for bendy light/curvature of the earth when the moon is between the two points but I am not sure how to get it to work for the others.

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parsec

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2010, 12:31:08 PM »
Then that would suggest that at different locations, the sun would appear to be a different height above the FE.  So that means that bendy light makes it impossible to accurately calculate the height of the sun.  Then again, even if light doesn't bend, observers at different locations still get different results, so I guess that nothing has changed.  :-\

That's interesting, parsec. So, according to that diagram, if we, instead of two angles, we measure, let's say, six angles from different spots we will get many different distances earth-moon depending on what angles do we compare? This would be a nice way of proving/disproving BL theory, better and simplier than my own experiment.

And this is exactly what happens, but is interpreted as the curvature of the Earth.



This equation removes the height variable from the angle.  This is then added to the distance. I am working on finding out how to compensate for bendy light, as you can see I worked it into this equation.

I worked out how to compensate for bendy light/curvature of the earth when the moon is between the two points but I am not sure how to get it to work for the others.
I don't understand a single thing on that picture. All I see is a bunch of right angled triangles and rectangles and an equation that invloves Pi.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2010, 12:33:55 PM by parsec »

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Lorddave

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2010, 12:43:57 PM »
Then that would suggest that at different locations, the sun would appear to be a different height above the FE.  So that means that bendy light makes it impossible to accurately calculate the height of the sun.  Then again, even if light doesn't bend, observers at different locations still get different results, so I guess that nothing has changed.  :-\

That's interesting, parsec. So, according to that diagram, if we, instead of two angles, we measure, let's say, six angles from different spots we will get many different distances earth-moon depending on what angles do we compare? This would be a nice way of proving/disproving BL theory, better and simplier than my own experiment.

And this is exactly what happens, but is interpreted as the curvature of the Earth.

Question:
If it's interpreted as the curvature of the Earth then how do you know it's not?  You can't invoke BLT without disproving the curvature bit can you?
And how did BTL even come into being?

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parsec

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2010, 01:03:03 PM »
Question: How do you know the curvature bit if you don't assume straight line propagation of light from the celestial bodies to the Earth's surface?

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Lorddave

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2010, 01:28:19 PM »
Question: How do you know the curvature bit if you don't assume straight line propagation of light from the celestial bodies to the Earth's surface?

You didn't answer my question.
If you do, I'll answer yours.

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parsec

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Re: Lunar Parallax Experiment
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2010, 02:43:51 PM »
Question: How do you know the curvature bit if you don't assume straight line propagation of light from the celestial bodies to the Earth's surface?

You didn't answer my question.
If you do, I'll answer yours.

You didn't answer my question.
If you do, I'll answer yours.