Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.

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Ungoliant

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Ok, I read the FAQ and have a few questions:


Q: "Please explain sunrises/sunsets."

A: It's a perspective effect. Really, the sun is just getting farther away; it looks like it's disappearing because everything gets smaller, and eventually disappears as it gets farther away.

No it doesn't. It appears to sink beyond the horizon, with it's apparent size not changed to the point of seeming to disappear, doesn't it?


Q: "What about satellites? How do they orbit the Earth?"

A: Since sustained spaceflight is not possible, satellites can't orbit the Earth. The signals we supposedly receive from them are either broadcast from towers or any number of possible pseudolites. However, temporary space-flight is possible.

So what are those things that I see at night in the sky moving very fast commonly said to be satellites? (don't say airplanes or shooting stars or the sort).



Q: "What about Lunar Eclipses?"

A: A celestial body, known as the antimoon, passes between the sun and moon. This projects a shadow upon the moon.

But wait a minute... "The sun and moon, each 32 miles in diameter, rotate at a height of 3000 miles above sea level. As they are spotlights, they only illuminate certain places." How can it project a shadow upon the moon then?



Q: "What is the motive behind this Conspiracy?"

A: Although their main objective can only be speculated upon, the most favored theory is that of financial gain.  In a nutshell, it would logically cost much less to fake a space program than to actually have one, so those in on the Conspiracy profit from the funding NASA and other space agencies receive from the government.

That's not evidence of Earth being flat. Even considering a round Earth they could fake images if they wanted to save money. Why do you keep using it as evidence?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2010, 03:52:13 PM »
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Q: "Please explain sunrises/sunsets."

A: It's a perspective effect. Really, the sun is just getting farther away; it looks like it's disappearing because everything gets smaller, and eventually disappears as it gets farther away.

No it doesn't. It appears to sink beyond the horizon, with it's apparent size not changed to the point of seeming to disappear, doesn't it?

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Magnification+of+the+Sun+at+Sunset

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Q: "What about satellites? How do they orbit the Earth?"

A: Since sustained spaceflight is not possible, satellites can't orbit the Earth. The signals we supposedly receive from them are either broadcast from towers or any number of possible pseudolites. However, temporary space-flight is possible.

So what are those things that I see at night in the sky moving very fast commonly said to be satellites? (don't say airplanes or shooting stars or the sort).

You don't see any satellites in the night sky. It's a myth that satellites can be seen zipping across the sky.

The only satellite which is able to be seen is the ISS (and iridium flares from iridium satellites).

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Q: "What about Lunar Eclipses?"

A: A celestial body, known as the antimoon, passes between the sun and moon. This projects a shadow upon the moon.

But wait a minute... "The sun and moon, each 32 miles in diameter, rotate at a height of 3000 miles above sea level. As they are spotlights, they only illuminate certain places." How can it project a shadow upon the moon then?

At an altitude of 3000 miles, the rays of the sun can travel horizontally to the moon unencumbered by the atmosphere or by perspective.

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Q: "What is the motive behind this Conspiracy?"

A: Although their main objective can only be speculated upon, the most favored theory is that of financial gain.  In a nutshell, it would logically cost much less to fake a space program than to actually have one, so those in on the Conspiracy profit from the funding NASA and other space agencies receive from the government.

That's not evidence of Earth being flat. Even considering a round Earth they could fake images if they wanted to save money. Why do you keep using it as evidence?

Where does it say that money being a motive is evidence for a Flat Earth?  ???
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 05:43:11 PM by Tom Bishop »

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2fst4u

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2010, 04:08:33 PM »

Quote
Q: "What about satellites? How do they orbit the Earth?"

A: Since sustained spaceflight is not possible, satellites can't orbit the Earth. The signals we supposedly receive from them are either broadcast from towers or any number of possible pseudolites. However, temporary space-flight is possible.

So what are those things that I see at night in the sky moving very fast commonly said to be satellites? (don't say airplanes or shooting stars or the sort).

You don't see anything in the nigth sky moving very fast. It's a myth that satellites can be seen zipping across the sky.

The only satellite which is able to be seen is the ISS (iridium flares from iridium satellites). The ISS can be seen because it is allegedly as big as a soccer field, compared to the car sized communications satellites.


WRONG. I have witnessed on several occasions TWO different satellites travelling in different directions across the sky. I have witnessed this several times because I frequently venture into the bush (Read, I go tramping lots) where light pollution is negligible.

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Ungoliant

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2010, 04:10:22 PM »
I read the link and it does explain quite nicely why the sun doesn't appear to grow smaller, but still doesn't explain why it seems to sink behind the horizon.
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It's not a myth, I've seen it myself, and it was certainly not an airplane.
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But if the sun is a spotlight pointing to Earth, and not a sphere pointing everywhere, how can it project a shadow in the moon?
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In the faq:

Q: "NASA and other world space agencies have pictures of the Earth from space, and in those pictures the Earth is clearly a globe; in this day and age, hasn't it been proven beyond any doubt that the Earth is round?"

A: NASA and the rest of the world's space agencies who claim to have been to space are involved in a Conspiracy to keep the shape of the Earth hidden.  The pictures are faked using simple imaging software.

...

Q: "What is the motive behind this Conspiracy?"

A: Although their main objective can only be speculated upon, the most favored theory is that of financial gain.  In a nutshell, it would logically cost much less to fake a space program than to actually have one, so those in on the Conspiracy profit from the funding NASA and other space agencies receive from the government.


What I understand from that is: The conspiracy provides fake pictures of the earth because they want to keep the true shape hidden -> their reason for keeping the true shape hidden is that they want to save money.

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Ungoliant

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2010, 04:23:40 PM »
Also, shouldn't the sun appear to shift to the right when you look west while it's setting and east when it's rising?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2010, 04:48:43 PM »
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WRONG. I have witnessed on several occasions TWO different satellites travelling in different directions across the sky.

No you didn't. Satellites are far too small to see. Th ISS is barely visible and it's the size of a soccer field.

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Ungoliant

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2010, 04:53:02 PM »
We see their lights.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2010, 04:53:39 PM »
We see their lights.

Nope. The only satellite which can be seen is the ISS.

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2fst4u

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2010, 04:56:47 PM »
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WRONG. I have witnessed on several occasions TWO different satellites travelling in different directions across the sky.

No you didn't. Satellites are far too small to see. Th ISS is barely visible and it's the size of a soccer field.
I beg to differ. Proving something is one thing. Telling someone they didn't see something and leaving it at that seems kind of suspicious and leads one to question your authority in the field of satellites. I DID see them. And they DID move in different directions. You have no place telling me I didn't.

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2010, 04:57:01 PM »
We see their lights.

Nope. The only satellite which can be seen is the ISS.

You're talking absolute rubbish. Again.
But at least you are admitting one satellite exists and therefore orbit is possible, therefore the earth is not flat.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2010, 04:58:21 PM »
...leads one to question your authority in the field of satellites.

He runs a diploma mill, he has no knowledge of anything to do with aerospace matters.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.

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Ungoliant

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2010, 04:59:44 PM »
What were the lights then? Hallucinations? Bicycle Repairman?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2010, 05:27:39 PM »
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WRONG. I have witnessed on several occasions TWO different satellites travelling in different directions across the sky.

No you didn't. Satellites are far too small to see. Th ISS is barely visible and it's the size of a soccer field.
I beg to differ. Proving something is one thing. Telling someone they didn't see something and leaving it at that seems kind of suspicious and leads one to question your authority in the field of satellites. I DID see them. And they DID move in different directions. You have no place telling me I didn't.

Well, since satellites aren't visible, you are either lying, misremembering, or were looking at something else.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 05:30:09 PM by Tom Bishop »

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2fst4u

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2010, 05:35:00 PM »
Either explain why they aren't visible, or explain what I saw. Everyone other than you claims to have seen at least one satellite travel across the sky at some stage.

I also won't take kindly to you calling me a liar. One could counter that by calling yourself a liar. It is unjustified.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2010, 05:36:01 PM »
explain why they aren't visible.

They aren't visible because they're too small. Can you see a grizzly bear from the Concorde?

No? What makes you think that you can see something the size of a grizzly bear in orbit?

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explain what I saw.

If you're not lying or misremembering, you may have been looking at planes.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 05:40:05 PM by Tom Bishop »

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Ungoliant

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2010, 05:44:28 PM »
Then I must be lying, because it certainly wasn't an airplane. It wasn't blinking, there was no noise, and looking at it with a telescope didn't show an airplane (and I know how it would look like because I've seen airplanes with it before.)

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2fst4u

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2010, 05:45:03 PM »
explain why they aren't visible.

They aren't visible because they're too small. Can you see a grizzly bear from the Concorde?

No? What makes you think that you can see something the size of a grizzly bear in orbit?

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explain what I saw.

If you're not lying or misremembering, you may have been looking at planes.
Are grizzly bears made of highly reflective materials that are in near-constant line of sight with our sun? no.

International regulations for aircraft lighting is the same. Only red and green lights will be seen.
And not to mention the speed of these craft. Even at a low altitude, they would have to be travelling near-sonic. I'm sure the technology does not exist for silent near-sonic travel unless you wish to show me that it does.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2010, 08:03:36 PM by 2fst4u »

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Moon squirter

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2010, 08:05:58 AM »
explain why they aren't visible.

They aren't visible because they're too small. Can you see a grizzly bear from the Concorde?

No? What makes you think that you can see something the size of a grizzly bear in orbit?



Just re-iterating what 2fst4u has said...

Of course I could see a gristly bear from Concorde if the bear was made of shiny metal and lit by the sun, in front of a dark background in pitch blackness.   You couldn't make out the shape of it, it would just see a dim point of light.  A candle is visible from may miles away for the same reason.
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2010, 11:45:57 AM »
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Are grizzly bears made of highly reflective materials that are in near-constant line of sight with our sun? no.

You wouldn't be able to see a grizzly bear made of aluminum from the Concorde, either.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 11:47:51 AM by Tom Bishop »

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2fst4u

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2010, 12:35:22 PM »
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Are grizzly bears made of highly reflective materials that are in near-constant line of sight with our sun? no.

You wouldn't be able to see a grizzly bear made of aluminum from the Concorde, either.
Yes. Yes you would. From the specific angle at which the sun reflects off it and then into your eye, you would see it. Everyone who goes tramping takes a small mirror with them in case they become helpless. This mirror is used to shine light at aircraft so they notice them. A Grizzly bear made of aluminium would shine a significantly larger amount of light at a significantly higher number of angles. You WOULD see a large metal object reflecting light back at you.

Your argument fails.

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Moon squirter

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2010, 12:53:27 PM »
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Are grizzly bears made of highly reflective materials that are in near-constant line of sight with our sun? no.

You wouldn't be able to see a grizzly bear made of aluminum from the Concorde, either.

Back to you, Tom

Of course I could see a gristly bear from Concorde if the bear was made of shiny metal and lit by the sun, in front of a dark background in pitch blackness.   You couldn't make out the shape of it, it would just see a dim point of light.  A candle is visible from may miles away for the same reason.
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2010, 02:46:56 PM »
Sorry, what am I supposed to respond to, your nonsense assumptions about bears and candles you put forward without evidence? ::)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 02:53:00 PM by Tom Bishop »

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2fst4u

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2010, 02:49:49 PM »
Sorry, what am I supposed to respond to, your nonsense assumptions about a flat earth or your made up theories on the bending of light?

This can go both ways. Denying well thought out assumptions is called ignorance. Ignorance helps no one. Light clearly travels a long way and so a reflective material will bounce this light towards an observer. There is no denying that a highly reflective object is visible from an aircraft and so it is safe to assume a MASSIVE reflective object in space should be visible from earth at night-time against a backdrop of darkness.

EDIT: also, what would you consider to be acceptable evidence? Any time an image is posted or a new idea brought to light, it is attacked as being part of the conspiracy and has no means of making a mark on your thought processes.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 03:03:28 PM by 2fst4u »

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Canadark

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2010, 08:40:14 PM »
Sorry, what am I supposed to respond to, your nonsense assumptions about bears and candles you put forward without evidence? ::)

We reject your premise because you lack the evidence to back it up.
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.

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Moon squirter

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2010, 12:27:51 AM »
Sorry, what am I supposed to respond to, your nonsense assumptions about bears and candles you put forward without evidence? ::)

Your bizarre analogy about seeing a brown bear on the ground from Concorde is the only nonsense I can see here, Tom.   It's not remotely comparable to seeing (detecting with the naked eye) a metallic object illuminated by full daylight against the pitch black night sky.

I've also see ISS many times; It looks like a bright star (and it's verified by amateur astronomers).  An object much smaller will look much dimmer, but still be visible.  Why wouldn't it be?

The billions and billions of photons emitted by a daylight-lit satellite should be visible to the human eye, which only need 100 or so photos to register a detection.
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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Tom Bishop

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2010, 01:11:27 AM »
I'm sorry, but just because it's emitting photons we have to see it?

Saturn's moons are also emitting "billions and billions" of photons, but I haven't seen any of Saturn's moons with my naked eye, have you?

Just because something is in space and emitting photons does not guarantee naked eye visibility.

Communication satellites cannot and have not been seen. There are no videos of satellites. No one can see them streak through the sky on a dark night.

It's a myth that satellites are seen, just as it's a myth that Sputnik was seen. Thousands of people did not see Sputnik. Not even one. The idea that someone can see something the size of a basketball in orbit is laughable.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 01:21:32 AM by Tom Bishop »

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EireEngineer

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2010, 01:26:42 AM »
Quote
WRONG. I have witnessed on several occasions TWO different satellites travelling in different directions across the sky.

No you didn't. Satellites are far too small to see. Th ISS is barely visible and it's the size of a soccer field.
I beg to differ. Proving something is one thing. Telling someone they didn't see something and leaving it at that seems kind of suspicious and leads one to question your authority in the field of satellites. I DID see them. And they DID move in different directions. You have no place telling me I didn't.

Well, since satellites aren't visible, you are either lying, misremembering, or were looking at something else.

Sit outside on a clear night someplace away from light pollution, look to the south, and THEN tell me you cant see satellites Tom. 
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 01:33:30 AM by EireEngineer »
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2fst4u

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2010, 01:29:08 AM »
I'm sorry, but just because it's emitting photons we have to see it?

Yes. We see the sun and it is a very very long way away compared to satellites

Saturn's moons are also emitting "billions and billions" of photons, but I haven't seen any of Saturn's moons with my naked eye, have you?

Saturn's moons are not emitting photons, they are reflecting photons emitted from the sun. Saturn is not as reflective as a satellite

Just because something is in space and emitting photons does not guarantee naked eye visibility.

it does when it is as close as a low-level satellite

Communication satellites cannot and have not been seen. There are no videos of satellites. No one can see them streak through the sky on a dark night.

yes they can, yes there are and yes you can. Don't make up un-facts

It's a myth that satellites are seen, just as it's a myth that Sputnik was seen. Thousands of people did not see Sputnik. Not even one. The idea that someone can see something the size of a basketball in orbit is laughable.

It's a myth that the earth is flat. It's an easy thing to say isn't it? Prove things wrong and you will be respectfully listened to. Make things up and people will find your ideas laughable
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 01:36:05 AM by 2fst4u »

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Moon squirter

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2010, 01:35:23 AM »
I'm sorry, but just because it's emitting photons we have to see it?

Saturn's moons are also emitting "billions and billions" of photons, but I haven't seen any of Saturn's moons with my naked eye, have you?

Just because something is in space and emitting photons does not guarantee naked eye visibility.

Communication satellites cannot and have not been seen. There are no videos of satellites. No one can see them streak through the sky on a dark night.

It's a myth that satellites are seen, just as it's a myth that Sputnik was seen. Thousands of people did not see Sputnik. Not even one. The idea that someone can see something the size of a basketball in orbit is laughable.
....So what are the tiny dim points of light i've occasionally seen moving across the sky?
 
If I can see the ISS as a bright object, why shouldn't I be able to see a smaller object?
I haven't performed it and I've never claimed to. I've have trouble being in two places at the same time.

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Thermal Detonator

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Re: Sunrises, satellites, eclipses and the motive behind the conspiracy.
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2010, 03:42:39 AM »

Saturn's moons are also emitting "billions and billions" of photons, but I haven't seen any of Saturn's moons with my naked eye, have you?

The proximity of Saturn, which is quite bright, makes the moons impossible to see with the glare using just the naked eye. I can assure you that if the glare from Saturn itself were obscured, Titan would certainly be visible to the naked eye.
Gayer doesn't live in an atmosphere of vaporised mustard like you appear to, based on your latest photo.