Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat

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Dino

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Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« on: January 01, 2010, 06:18:35 PM »
As I posted in my first thread here:

http://www.cognitionandculture.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=559:conversation-hackers&catid=32:oliviers-blog&Itemid=34

"But what really happens in the virtual lobbies of the Flat Earth Society is more twisted. There is probably not a single sincere proponent of Flat Earth Theory on the whole site. Rather, the forum seems to have been designed as a gigantic Troll bait. The presence of Trolls is openly acknowledged on the forum, as some important moderators of the site, Flatters and Rounders alike, have been unmasked. They have been spotted on hacked private forums, where they were boasting about their hoax. Apparently, the 'Flat-Earthers' who created the site were really Trolls who planned to attract Round-earthers, and confound them with silly arguments. Instead, other Trolls showed up and began arguing for both positions...

Even when a debate is obviously designed by Trolls and for Trolls, trolling is rarely acknowledged as the true purpose of the conversation. At Flat Earth Society, with trolling being endemic and conspicuous everywhere on the forum, participants take great care not to come out as Trolls. Flat-Earthers (most likely to be suspected of trolling) insist on the sincerity of their beliefs. Trolls being unmasked are a cause for scandal. The reason why everyone feigns to take the question of trolling so seriously is, of course, because accusations of trolling offer endless opportunities for trolling about trolling. This thread for example, is typical: everyone claims to be the only sincere defender of Flat/Round Earth Theory, and accuses everyone else of being a Troll."

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skeptical scientist

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2010, 07:11:14 PM »
That seems more or less accurate. Although I've never seen evidence that Daniel believes/doesn't believe the Earth is flat, and would very much like to see it if it exists. Many of the flat-Earthers on this site started out as round-Earthers, as you can tell by looking at their first posts. Of course, it could be argued that they had a sincere change of heart after reading opposing viewpoints...

No, wait, that would be laughable.
-David
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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2010, 10:21:25 PM »
If you read most of the posts around the forums, its pretty much a fact that this place is filled with trolls.  That doesn't make it any less fun for me though.  Combating blantant verbal horse waste with sound logic is a great way to keep up on your physics skills.  Plus, I like the fact that the website lets people look at the world at a different angle.

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2010, 07:47:25 AM »
I'm not sure I've heard of anyone being "unmasked" here. Most of the people playing 'Devil's Advocate' will openly tell you they believe the Earth is round if you ask them outright. Very few ever claim to believe the Earth is flat. I'm not aware of any genuine FE'er having been 'unmasked', ever. The simple fact is that some of us do believe the Earth is flat.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2010, 07:48:31 AM »
Also, as this thread is really about FE'ers and their beliefs, I'm moving it to FEG.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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markjo

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2010, 08:02:23 AM »
I'm not sure I've heard of anyone being "unmasked" here. Most of the people playing 'Devil's Advocate' will openly tell you they believe the Earth is round if you ask them outright. Very few ever claim to believe the Earth is flat. I'm not aware of any genuine FE'er having been 'unmasked', ever. The simple fact is that some of us do believe the Earth is flat.

Wilmore, the only problem is that some of the dedicated devil's advocates never drop character.  That makes it difficult to know for sure who is a true believer and who is a dedicated DA.
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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2010, 09:02:46 AM »
Some of us talked about that article when you first posted it.  First of all, the author pulls a lot of random stuff out of his ass.  For example:

Quote
[Important moderators] have been spotted on hacked private forums, where they were boasting about their hoax.

What?  No, they haven't.

Quote
Apparently, the 'Flat-Earthers' who created the site were really Trolls who planned to attract Round-earthers, and confound them with silly arguments.

Uh, no.  This site was founded by one man, and it doesn't seem like the author has any idea who he is.

Quote
Trolls being unmasked are a cause for scandal.

...................no.

Quote
The reason why everyone feigns to take the question of trolling so seriously is, of course, because accusations of trolling offer endless opportunities for trolling about trolling. This thread for example, is typical: everyone claims to be the only sincere defender of Flat/Round Earth Theory, and accuses everyone else of being a Troll."

I'm not going to pretend that I could make any sense of that.

Also, as I pointed out earlier, there's a big difference between a devil's advocate and a troll.  Trolls are disruptive in nature, more concerned with getting a negative reaction from others than the debate itself.  Very few of us are like that.

Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2010, 09:19:29 AM »
Some of us talked about that article when you first posted it.  First of all, the author pulls a lot of random stuff out of his ass.  For example:

Quote
[Important moderators] have been spotted on hacked private forums, where they were boasting about their hoax.

What?  No, they haven't.

Quote
Apparently, the 'Flat-Earthers' who created the site were really Trolls who planned to attract Round-earthers, and confound them with silly arguments.

Uh, no.  This site was founded by one man, and it doesn't seem like the author has any idea who he is.

Quote
Trolls being unmasked are a cause for scandal.

...................no.

Quote
The reason why everyone feigns to take the question of trolling so seriously is, of course, because accusations of trolling offer endless opportunities for trolling about trolling. This thread for example, is typical: everyone claims to be the only sincere defender of Flat/Round Earth Theory, and accuses everyone else of being a Troll."

I'm not going to pretend that I could make any sense of that.

Also, as I pointed out earlier, there's a big difference between a devil's advocate and a troll.  Trolls are disruptive in nature, more concerned with getting a negative reaction from others than the debate itself.  Very few of us are like that.

Just curious, what does the "8/30 never forget" thing refer to?
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2010, 10:29:50 AM »
It refers to that sad day we were hacked. :(

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EnglshGentleman

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2010, 04:19:35 PM »
It refers to that sad day we were hacked. :(

 :o What happened!?

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2010, 06:25:28 PM »
It refers to that sad day we were hacked. :(

 :o What happened!?

Well, we were hacked.  The full story is somewhere on this forum.

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Taters343

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2010, 07:14:03 PM »
Nevar forget. All the content was removed from the forum.

Back on topic. There are a handful of members, maybe two handfuls (possibly 3)(I suppose it would depend on how big your hands are (and what you are grabbing)) that honestly believe the earth is flat. Off the top of my head I could say Lord Wilmore (I think), Waste of Mind, Tom Bishop, and myself. There are a bunch of others but I'm too tired to think of them. Maybe Parsifal, but he could be an avocado.

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Saddam Hussein

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2010, 07:33:31 PM »
Nevar forget. All the content was removed from the forum.

Back on topic. There are a handful of members, maybe two handfuls (possibly 3)(I suppose it would depend on how big your hands are (and what you are grabbing)) that honestly believe the earth is flat. Off the top of my head I could say Lord Wilmore (I think), Waste of Mind, Tom Bishop, and myself. There are a bunch of others but I'm too tired to think of them. Maybe Parsifal, but he could be an avocado.

::) There is no way that you genuinely believe in an FE.  Having individual members list who they think are the real FE'ers can be a good way to get some a general list, but you usually want to disregard the part where they say "and myself".  If we were going to go by individual assertions alone, then the majority of senior members here would be FE'ers, which we know is not true.

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Mr Pseudonym

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2010, 12:56:47 AM »
As I posted in my first thread here:

http://www.cognitionandculture.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=559:conversation-hackers&catid=32:oliviers-blog&Itemid=34

"But what really happens in the virtual lobbies of the Flat Earth Society is more twisted. There is probably not a single sincere proponent of Flat Earth Theory on the whole site. Rather, the forum seems to have been designed as a gigantic Troll bait. The presence of Trolls is openly acknowledged on the forum, as some important moderators of the site, Flatters and Rounders alike, have been unmasked. They have been spotted on hacked private forums, where they were boasting about their hoax. Apparently, the 'Flat-Earthers' who created the site were really Trolls who planned to attract Round-earthers, and confound them with silly arguments. Instead, other Trolls showed up and began arguing for both positions...

Even when a debate is obviously designed by Trolls and for Trolls, trolling is rarely acknowledged as the true purpose of the conversation. At Flat Earth Society, with trolling being endemic and conspicuous everywhere on the forum, participants take great care not to come out as Trolls. Flat-Earthers (most likely to be suspected of trolling) insist on the sincerity of their beliefs. Trolls being unmasked are a cause for scandal. The reason why everyone feigns to take the question of trolling so seriously is, of course, because accusations of trolling offer endless opportunities for trolling about trolling. This thread for example, is typical: everyone claims to be the only sincere defender of Flat/Round Earth Theory, and accuses everyone else of being a Troll."

Sorry Dino but I can't see any proof of a FE from that statement.  But it was a great title to get me to read what I already know. 
Why do we fall back to earth? Because our weight pushes us down, no laws, no gravity pulling us. It is the law of intelligence.

Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2010, 11:46:38 PM »
how is that absolute proof? its just about trolls.

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Gigamonsta

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2010, 07:48:58 AM »
i believe the earth is flat. ive recently finished reading earth not a globe. ive been a flat earth agnostic (unsure if earth is round or not) but ive recently evolved into an fe'er. if one really looks they can see that the new world order is covering lots of stuff from us. bohemian grove, 9/11, illuminati, etc...
so there u have it. its not that we're stupid.

Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2010, 08:38:07 AM »
I don't think Tom Bishop really believes the Earth is flat.
There is evidence for a NASA conspiracy. Please search.

Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2010, 12:00:02 PM »
That seems more or less accurate. Although I've never seen evidence that Daniel believes/doesn't believe the Earth is flat, and would very much like to see it if it exists. Many of the flat-Earthers on this site started out as round-Earthers, as you can tell by looking at their first posts. Of course, it could be argued that they had a sincere change of heart after reading opposing viewpoints...

No, wait, that would be laughable.

I thought more so that it was a thought experiment and Daniel was a philosophy professor, with the mods being other professors or students.  The goal of the mod/true FE supporters would be to "believe" and force others to question what they thought they knew and how they arrived at that thinking.
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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2010, 01:46:25 PM »
I thought more so that it was a thought experiment and Daniel was a philosophy professor, with the mods being other professors or students.  The goal of the mod/true FE supporters would be to "believe" and force others to question what they thought they knew and how they arrived at that thinking.
An interesting theory. Do you have any evidence for it?
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2010, 05:38:49 PM »
He doesn't, because we aren't. Rather than type it all out again, I'll quote a previous post I made on this subject:


As James said, everyone changes their mind at some point, and I have never made a secret of it- I have on many occasions stated the cause of that change. I openly admit that despite having read a great deal of philosophy and engaged in a lot of discussion concerning the nature of reality and the basis of our beliefs, I had never thought to apply any of that to many of the basic beliefs in my life. This site opened my eyes, and I owe it a debt.

Furthermore, I didn't just change my mind 'one day'. After playing 'devil's advocate' here for a couple of months after first joining, I started to seriously consider my beliefs in a way I had never done before, and began to view things through a whole new philosophical perspective. I deliberately stopped posting at this site until I was sure what those conclusions would mean in terms of my worldview (both literal and metaphorical). That took a long time, and much thought and deliberation. It was nearly a year before I returned, and when I came back, I came back with a different mindset and totally different beliefs to those I had when I left.

It may seem (or have seemed) abrupt to you, but I can assure you, it was in no way abrupt for me- it was a long, drawn out process. I spent that year basically enveloped in thought about what I believed and why, often to the detriment of my personal life and education. I'm glad that period of my life is behind me, but I also know that if I had the chance to do it all over again, I would do it the same way. I owe my success now to my strife then, and I owe all of it to this site and the perspective it gave me.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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skeptical scientist

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2010, 06:03:52 PM »
Forgive me if I don't believe you (or anyone else) had a sincere change of heart and concluded that the Earth is really flat. I can believe that some people think that the Earth is flat - people have been led to stranger beliefs by religious and ideological indoctrination. But the idea that a round Earther would be converted into a flat-Earther by the arguments presented on this site is just not credible.

As I said before,
Many of the flat-Earthers on this site started out as round-Earthers, as you can tell by looking at their first posts. Of course, it could be argued that they had a sincere change of heart after reading opposing viewpoints...

No, wait, that would be laughable.

On the other hand, the idea that someone would be converted from arguing the RE point of view to wanting to play for the other side after observing the idiotic (I'm sorry, "idotic") comments posted by REers on these forums is entirely believable. Personally, I was converted to wanting to argue the exact opposite position Parsec takes in any thread, since I find him unbearably annoying.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2010, 06:07:23 PM by skeptical scientist »
-David
E pur si muove!

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2010, 06:32:52 PM »
Well, seeing as you're basically calling me a liar, I'm not sure there's any point in any further discussion. However, you should use the forum's search function to look up the George Scott Fallacy. It may prove enlightening.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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skeptical scientist

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2010, 11:32:14 PM »
Well, seeing as you're basically calling me a liar, I'm not sure there's any point in any further discussion. However, you should use the forum's search function to look up the George Scott Fallacy. It may prove enlightening.
I'm sure you're ever-so-offended. By the way, it should really be called the George Scott Remark, not the George Scott Fallacy, because it's not a fallacy in the sense of logical fallacies.
-David
E pur si muove!

Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2010, 05:44:30 AM »
He doesn't, because we aren't. Rather than type it all out again, I'll quote a previous post I made on this subject:


As James said, everyone changes their mind at some point, and I have never made a secret of it- I have on many occasions stated the cause of that change. I openly admit that despite having read a great deal of philosophy and engaged in a lot of discussion concerning the nature of reality and the basis of our beliefs, I had never thought to apply any of that to many of the basic beliefs in my life. This site opened my eyes, and I owe it a debt.

Furthermore, I didn't just change my mind 'one day'. After playing 'devil's advocate' here for a couple of months after first joining, I started to seriously consider my beliefs in a way I had never done before, and began to view things through a whole new philosophical perspective. I deliberately stopped posting at this site until I was sure what those conclusions would mean in terms of my worldview (both literal and metaphorical). That took a long time, and much thought and deliberation. It was nearly a year before I returned, and when I came back, I came back with a different mindset and totally different beliefs to those I had when I left.

It may seem (or have seemed) abrupt to you, but I can assure you, it was in no way abrupt for me- it was a long, drawn out process. I spent that year basically enveloped in thought about what I believed and why, often to the detriment of my personal life and education. I'm glad that period of my life is behind me, but I also know that if I had the chance to do it all over again, I would do it the same way. I owe my success now to my strife then, and I owe all of it to this site and the perspective it gave me.

So, what was the one compelling piece of evidence that truly convinced you that that the earth is flat?  Has is caused you to undertake a career which will spread the truth or to advance the theory to prove to the mainstream world that this is in fact the case?

It seemed strange that in your post history there is less than a day's gap between posts of an ardent supporter for the theory which has more tangible evidence and has a more reasoned explanation and the epiphany where you converted to support the FET.

Also, having evidence to support something and that something's actuality are two entirely different things, like fossils on multiple continents showing that dinosaurs built ocean going boats.
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2010, 08:12:36 AM »
It seemed strange that in your post history there is less than a day's gap between posts of an ardent supporter for the theory which has more tangible evidence and has a more reasoned explanation and the epiphany where you converted to support the FET.


Can you read? I've bolded the bit you obviously didn't:


As James said, everyone changes their mind at some point, and I have never made a secret of it- I have on many occasions stated the cause of that change. I openly admit that despite having read a great deal of philosophy and engaged in a lot of discussion concerning the nature of reality and the basis of our beliefs, I had never thought to apply any of that to many of the basic beliefs in my life. This site opened my eyes, and I owe it a debt.

Furthermore, I didn't just change my mind 'one day'. After playing 'devil's advocate' here for a couple of months after first joining, I started to seriously consider my beliefs in a way I had never done before, and began to view things through a whole new philosophical perspective. I deliberately stopped posting at this site until I was sure what those conclusions would mean in terms of my worldview (both literal and metaphorical). That took a long time, and much thought and deliberation. It was nearly a year before I returned, and when I came back, I came back with a different mindset and totally different beliefs to those I had when I left.

It may seem (or have seemed) abrupt to you, but I can assure you, it was in no way abrupt for me- it was a long, drawn out process. I spent that year basically enveloped in thought about what I believed and why, often to the detriment of my personal life and education. I'm glad that period of my life is behind me, but I also know that if I had the chance to do it all over again, I would do it the same way. I owe my success now to my strife then, and I owe all of it to this site and the perspective it gave me.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2010, 08:39:28 AM »
It seemed strange that in your post history there is less than a day's gap between posts of an ardent supporter for the theory which has more tangible evidence and has a more reasoned explanation and the epiphany where you converted to support the FET.


Can you read? I've bolded the bit you obviously didn't:


As James said, everyone changes their mind at some point, and I have never made a secret of it- I have on many occasions stated the cause of that change. I openly admit that despite having read a great deal of philosophy and engaged in a lot of discussion concerning the nature of reality and the basis of our beliefs, I had never thought to apply any of that to many of the basic beliefs in my life. This site opened my eyes, and I owe it a debt.

Furthermore, I didn't just change my mind 'one day'. After playing 'devil's advocate' here for a couple of months after first joining, I started to seriously consider my beliefs in a way I had never done before, and began to view things through a whole new philosophical perspective. I deliberately stopped posting at this site until I was sure what those conclusions would mean in terms of my worldview (both literal and metaphorical). That took a long time, and much thought and deliberation. It was nearly a year before I returned, and when I came back, I came back with a different mindset and totally different beliefs to those I had when I left.

It may seem (or have seemed) abrupt to you, but I can assure you, it was in no way abrupt for me- it was a long, drawn out process. I spent that year basically enveloped in thought about what I believed and why, often to the detriment of my personal life and education. I'm glad that period of my life is behind me, but I also know that if I had the chance to do it all over again, I would do it the same way. I owe my success now to my strife then, and I owe all of it to this site and the perspective it gave me.

 I read and comprehended what you wrote and I bolded the conflicting part, which served to initiate the confusion.  You joined, played 'devil's advocate' for a few months, took a year away and returned with a totally different mindset.  To me this would indicate a gap of about 1 year between a post of "I ardently believe the Earth to be round" and "I sincerely believe the earth to be flat".

....No, I can simply provide more tangible evidence and a more reasoned explanation than you can.

And I would still lke someone to explain why there is a discernable curvature of the Earth.....
Followed the day after by:
...Well, first allow me to state that I have since converted, and I now support FE theory, and I will do my best to improve it...
I'm just saying that this seemed to be in conflict with what you stated.  Am I reading something incorrectly?
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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2010, 11:13:55 AM »
....No, I can simply provide more tangible evidence and a more reasoned explanation than you can.

And I would still lke someone to explain why there is a discernable curvature of the Earth.....
Followed the day after by:
...Well, first allow me to state that I have since converted, and I now support FE theory, and I will do my best to improve it...
I'm just saying that this seemed to be in conflict with what you stated.  Am I reading something incorrectly?
By the way, that was the day after he joined. By his own admission, he was playing devil's advocate when he wrote that second post, and "didn't have a sincere conversion until much later." On the other hand, we have, by his own admission, him claiming to have had a sincere conversion when he was just playing a devil's advocate. Of course, his later sincere conversion was the real conversion, so while he may have been lying then when he claimed sincerity, he is telling the truth now. Right. ::)

And then he takes offense when I call him a liar. Lord Wilmore, we already know you're a liar, by your own admission, and in fact the statement you made almost four years ago and admitted is a lie is the same as the statement you are making now, which you claim is the truth. I ask you, how can we trust you now, given that we clearly couldn't trust you then?
-David
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Lord Wilmore

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2010, 01:10:40 PM »
I read and comprehended what you wrote and I bolded the conflicting part, which served to initiate the confusion.  You joined, played 'devil's advocate' for a few months, took a year away and returned with a totally different mindset.  To me this would indicate a gap of about 1 year between a post of "I ardently believe the Earth to be round" and "I sincerely believe the earth to be flat".

....No, I can simply provide more tangible evidence and a more reasoned explanation than you can.

And I would still lke someone to explain why there is a discernable curvature of the Earth.....
Followed the day after by:
...Well, first allow me to state that I have since converted, and I now support FE theory, and I will do my best to improve it...
I'm just saying that this seemed to be in conflict with what you stated.  Am I reading something incorrectly?


Yes, you are, and skeptical scientist has already pointed out why.


And then he takes offense when I call him a liar. Lord Wilmore, we already know you're a liar, by your own admission, and in fact the statement you made almost four years ago and admitted is a lie is the same as the statement you are making now, which you claim is the truth. I ask you, how can we trust you now, given that we clearly couldn't trust you then?


Because I made no secret of the fact that I was playing devil's advocate at that time, nor did I at any point afterwards. I have never hidden my real intentions from anyone. First of all, most of the people arguing for FET at that time were playing devil's advocate. Hence, saying I had 'converted' had a very specific meaning, unique to the culture of the board at that time.


My advice to you would be to stop trying to comment on and disect a situation you know nothing about. There are many people on this board who play devil's advocate, but who are neither considered believers nor dishonest. Devil's advocates have actually done a lot for this forum, so though my beliefs have changed, I am not ashamed of that period. I will say nothing against the people who tirelessly argue for FET despite not believing in it, out of a genuine love of thought and discussion.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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skeptical scientist

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2010, 02:57:48 PM »
Look at my join date; I definitely remember the time you are referring to, and have done my share of devil's advocacy as well. But I wouldn't expect anyone to believe me if I claimed to make a sincere declaration of belief that the Earth is flat. The thing about spending time on these boards is you quickly get a sense of which arguments are used to argue that the Earth is round, which of them don't work (such as your very first argument of observing the curvature of the horizon) and which of them do (such as the existence of north and south pole stars, as demonstrated by my avatar).

We're not talking about rocket science here; proving that the Earth is round is really quite simple. This is like the evolution vs. creationism debate: the evidence for evolution is rock solid, and easy to understand. The evidence for creationism is nonexistent. The reason there are still creationists is because they have an unshakeable faith in a particular interpretation of Genesis that disagrees with evolution, and so they are incapable of evaluating the evidence for both sides on their merits. Anyone who takes the time to evaluate the evidence, and is capable of evaluating both sides on their merits, will inevitably accept that the theory of evolution is correct and the creationists' arguments are nonsense. Nobody has ever been converted from understanding and believing in the theory of evolution to believing in creationism based on the arguments of creationists; it's impossible. Similarly, no rational open-minded person could look at the evidence for a round Earth and the evidence for a flat Earth and conclude that the Earth is flat.

You have clearly spent enough time on these boards to be familiar with the arguments on both sides, and the fact that you started out believing that the Earth is round shows that you don't have an ideological block that forces you to accept a flat Earth. You certainly seem to be a rational individual. So please pardon me if I continue to believe that you don't actually believe in a flat Earth.

On the other hand, that post above is probably entirely true; this is an eye-opening site, and does encourage the use of skepticism and basing your beliefs on observable evidence rather than on arguments from authority. So a "change in mindset" is entirely possible, if you don't actually mean that you changed your beliefs to include the belief in a flat Earth. But when you claim to be a "real FEer," if by that you mean you sincerely believe that the Earth is flat, then I don't find this claim very credible.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2010, 03:05:20 PM by skeptical scientist »
-David
E pur si muove!

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Re: Absolute Proof the Earth is Flat
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2010, 03:01:47 PM »
I read and comprehended what you wrote and I bolded the conflicting part, which served to initiate the confusion.  You joined, played 'devil's advocate' for a few months, took a year away and returned with a totally different mindset.  To me this would indicate a gap of about 1 year between a post of "I ardently believe the Earth to be round" and "I sincerely believe the earth to be flat".

....No, I can simply provide more tangible evidence and a more reasoned explanation than you can.

And I would still lke someone to explain why there is a discernable curvature of the Earth.....
Followed the day after by:
...Well, first allow me to state that I have since converted, and I now support FE theory, and I will do my best to improve it...
I'm just saying that this seemed to be in conflict with what you stated.  Am I reading something incorrectly?


Yes, you are, and skeptical scientist has already pointed out why.


And then he takes offense when I call him a liar. Lord Wilmore, we already know you're a liar, by your own admission, and in fact the statement you made almost four years ago and admitted is a lie is the same as the statement you are making now, which you claim is the truth. I ask you, how can we trust you now, given that we clearly couldn't trust you then?


Because I made no secret of the fact that I was playing devil's advocate at that time, nor did I at any point afterwards. I have never hidden my real intentions from anyone. First of all, most of the people arguing for FET at that time were playing devil's advocate. Hence, saying I had 'converted' had a very specific meaning, unique to the culture of the board at that time.


My advice to you would be to stop trying to comment on and disect a situation you know nothing about. There are many people on this board who play devil's advocate, but who are neitr considered believers nor dishonest. Devil's advocates have actually done a lot for this forum, so though my beliefs have changed, I am not ashamed of that period. I will say nothing against the people who tirelessly argue for FET despite not believing in it, out of a genuine love of thought and discussion.

Wait. Which side is the Devil on? I was trying to play God's advocate.