Modern Science = BS

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Lorddave

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #210 on: September 04, 2010, 03:09:57 AM »
Yes it does. It only grows in excess due to mechanical stress.
The moonlight doesn't produce mechanical stress.
Proof?
...
You really want proof?  Fine.
Plants don't move when there is no wind.
Plants do not exhibit signs of physical damage.
Nothing has been ever observed to move when there is moonlight (or any light) but no wind or other forces.

And unless you've been hiding data, your microscope pictures did not show ANY damage to any of the cells in any of the plants.
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General Disarray

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #211 on: September 04, 2010, 07:18:37 AM »
It only grows in excess due to mechanical stress.

Proof?

Do you know that it doesn't grow in excess in every possible circumstance? Have you tested every conceivable set of events in the universe to make sure that nothing could possibly cause excess growth?

If anything, your experiment shows that something besides mechanical stress causes excess Collenchyma growth.
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #212 on: September 04, 2010, 02:55:36 PM »
It only grows in excess due to mechanical stress.

Proof?

Do you know that it doesn't grow in excess in every possible circumstance? Have you tested every conceivable set of events in the universe to make sure that nothing could possibly cause excess growth?

If anything, your experiment shows that something besides mechanical stress causes excess Collenchyma growth.
You might be right. Moonlight might be much more sinister than normal observed mechanical stress.
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #213 on: September 04, 2010, 02:57:01 PM »
Yes it does. It only grows in excess due to mechanical stress.
The moonlight doesn't produce mechanical stress.
Proof?
...
You really want proof?  Fine.
Plants don't move when there is no wind. Actually, that is very incorrect
Plants do not exhibit signs of physical damage. Their growth responses do
Nothing has been ever observed to move when there is moonlight (or any light) but no wind or other forces. Incorrect. Plants are always moving to some degree

And unless you've been hiding data, your microscope pictures did not show ANY damage to any of the cells in any of the plants. The excess collenchyma speaks for itself
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General Disarray

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #214 on: September 04, 2010, 03:05:28 PM »
And you've failed to demonstrate that excess collenchyma growth actually harmed the plants in any way.
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #215 on: September 04, 2010, 03:11:31 PM »
And you've failed to demonstrate that excess collenchyma growth actually harmed the plants in any way.
it is terribly metabolically expensive to make any at all. Excess takes away fom other parts of the plant.
Read the old plant by a fan experiments. Excess growth absolutely crippled them!
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Lorddave

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #216 on: September 04, 2010, 03:17:52 PM »
Yes it does. It only grows in excess due to mechanical stress.
The moonlight doesn't produce mechanical stress.
Proof?
...
You really want proof?  Fine.
Plants don't move when there is no wind. Actually, that is very incorrect
Plants do not exhibit signs of physical damage. Their growth responses do
Nothing has been ever observed to move when there is moonlight (or any light) but no wind or other forces. Incorrect. Plants are always moving to some degree

And unless you've been hiding data, your microscope pictures did not show ANY damage to any of the cells in any of the plants. The excess collenchyma speaks for itself
I don't include growth to mean movement(ie. growth of excess cells on one side which causes a plant to appear to move).  But you're right, I should clarify that normal movements such as flowers blossoming are excluded.

However your last point is incorrect.  The excess collenchyma says nothing.  All it says is that you have excess collenchyma and it might have been caused by exposure only to moonlight.  Until you can show actual harm done to the plant (collenchyma growth isn't a response to damage, it's a prevention of damage) your conclusion is premature.

And you've failed to demonstrate that excess collenchyma growth actually harmed the plants in any way.
it is terribly metabolically expensive to make any at all. Excess takes away fom other parts of the plant.
Read the old plant by a fan experiments. Excess growth absolutely crippled them!
So?  What, you think plants are somehow sentient and do things that are only beneficial to them if the energy payoff out-wights the risk?  They respond to something.  Animals do it too.  An insect bites them,  they scratch the bit area.  Does that mean that scratching is beneficial?  No, it's harmful.

I'm sorry but plants are no different than any other living thing: they can do things based on outside stimuli that are not helpful to them.
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EireEngineer

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #217 on: September 04, 2010, 03:18:33 PM »
So....the horrible damage that the moon is supposed to have caused the plant is.....slightly elevated levels of structural cells? ooooooooooh!
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Lorddave

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #218 on: September 04, 2010, 03:20:24 PM »
So....the horrible damage that the moon is supposed to have caused the plant is.....slightly elevated levels of structural cells? ooooooooooh!

But ONLY when sunlight is not present.  Apparently the moonlight requires a 24 hour period to pass before it causes harm.
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #219 on: September 04, 2010, 03:21:47 PM »
So?  What, you think plants are somehow sentient and do things that are only beneficial to them if the energy payoff out-wights the risk?  They respond to something. 
Yes they do respond, plants are some of the most finely tuned organisms on Earth. The reaction to make excess collenchyma evolved extremely precise that only stress causes the response because of the harm it causes.
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EireEngineer

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #220 on: September 04, 2010, 03:28:20 PM »
Dumbest idea ever.
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General Disarray

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #221 on: September 04, 2010, 03:33:51 PM »
So?  What, you think plants are somehow sentient and do things that are only beneficial to them if the energy payoff out-wights the risk?  They respond to something. 
Yes they do respond, plants are some of the most finely tuned organisms on Earth. The reaction to make excess collenchyma evolved extremely precise that only stress causes the response because of the harm it causes.

Again, you haven't proved that the plants were harmed in any way, just that collenchyma was grown.
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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #222 on: September 04, 2010, 03:37:36 PM »
So?  What, you think plants are somehow sentient and do things that are only beneficial to them if the energy payoff out-wights the risk?  They respond to something. 
Yes they do respond, plants are some of the most finely tuned organisms on Earth. The reaction to make excess collenchyma evolved extremely precise that only stress causes the response because of the harm it causes.

Again, you haven't proved that the plants were harmed in any way, just that Excess collenchyma was grown.
Please refer to experiments I have mentioned. They have already proved the metabolic harm. Mine is just the icing on the cake.
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Lorddave

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #223 on: September 04, 2010, 03:43:37 PM »
So?  What, you think plants are somehow sentient and do things that are only beneficial to them if the energy payoff out-wights the risk?  They respond to something. 
Yes they do respond, plants are some of the most finely tuned organisms on Earth. The reaction to make excess collenchyma evolved extremely precise that only stress causes the response because of the harm it causes.

Now name me all the various types of stress a plant can undergo.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #224 on: September 04, 2010, 03:44:45 PM »
???
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Lorddave

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #225 on: September 04, 2010, 03:57:26 PM »
???

So far I know of...

Mechanical.
Lime in the soil.
And rapid growth. (most likely due to artificial means)

What else?
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Sporadic

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #226 on: September 07, 2010, 10:02:26 AM »
Animals have their own evidence.

Such as?  I'm sure something such a concept as "MOONLIGHT HARMFUL TO ANIMALS & HUMANS" would rock the scientific world.  Yet it remains un-rocked.

Still waiting for your evidence.

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Raist

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #227 on: September 07, 2010, 06:25:23 PM »
???

Considering you don't know the difference between logrythmic and exponential growth in a population, what makes you think you are an expert in a biological department?

Just wondering, I kind of detest plant biology so I could in no way argue the claims you have made so far, but I am interested in how you gained the knowledge to come to the conclusions you have reached.


Also, wouldn't a simple experiment end this debate? Two large groups of plants kept in the same greenhouse, with one set of plants being shaded when the moon is out. Compare the relative growth of these plants, then self pollinate these plants for several generations.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #228 on: September 07, 2010, 06:28:55 PM »
???

Considering you don't know the difference between logrythmic and exponential growth in a population, what makes you think you are an expert in a biological department?
...what  ??? Population growth had nothing to do with my experiment. Did you just randomly make that up for the lulz?

Also, no.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 06:39:23 PM by Ichimaru Gin :] »
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Raist

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #229 on: September 07, 2010, 07:04:54 PM »
???

Considering you don't know the difference between logrythmic and exponential growth in a population, what makes you think you are an expert in a biological department?
...what  ??? Population growth had nothing to do with my experiment. Did you just randomly make that up for the lulz?

Also, no.

In a previous thread you claimed that a population experiencing exponential growth will stabilize at its carrying capacity when in fact that would be logrythmic growth.

I just feel that someone who made such an obvious mistake wouldn't be very reliable in such an in depth subject.

I'm sorry if that was a bit out of context, but it is very relevant.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #230 on: September 07, 2010, 07:07:14 PM »
Where?? Why would I be talking about populations when it has nothing to do with my experiment?
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Sporadic

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #231 on: September 08, 2010, 04:04:43 AM »
Animals have their own evidence.

Such as?  I'm sure something such a concept as "MOONLIGHT HARMFUL TO ANIMALS & HUMANS" would rock the scientific world.  Yet it remains un-rocked.

Still waiting for your evidence.

Still waiting, Ichy.

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General Disarray

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #232 on: September 08, 2010, 12:52:09 PM »
I'd say no access to sunlight would be a pretty big source of stress.
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Raist

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #233 on: September 08, 2010, 04:00:38 PM »
Where?? Why would I be talking about populations when it has nothing to do with my experiment?

In a previous thread


and to answer your second question.


I just feel that someone who made such an obvious mistake wouldn't be very reliable in such an in depth subject.

I'm sorry if that was a bit out of context, but it is very relevant.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #234 on: September 08, 2010, 04:43:11 PM »
Im sorry but I don't recall ever discussing population growth on tFES.
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Sporadic

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #235 on: September 08, 2010, 04:45:08 PM »
Im sorry but I don't recall ever discussing population growth on tFES.

Still waiting for that evidence you claimed you had on the "negative effects of moonlight on animals".

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Raist

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #236 on: September 08, 2010, 05:46:56 PM »
Im sorry but I don't recall ever discussing population growth on tFES.

I thought that conversation was with you.

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Ichimaru Gin :]

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #237 on: September 08, 2010, 05:48:45 PM »
I dont think so. The only thread I remember having a conversation with you was the troll evolution thread (the bad malaria posts haha) :P
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EnigmaZV

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #238 on: September 09, 2010, 12:42:52 PM »
Im sorry but I don't recall ever discussing population growth on tFES.

I thought that conversation was with you.

I remember this conversation, it was in a eugenics thread, and I don't think it was Ichi.
I don't know what you're implying, but you're probably wrong.

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Raist

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Re: Modern Science = BS
« Reply #239 on: September 09, 2010, 08:04:28 PM »
Im sorry but I don't recall ever discussing population growth on tFES.

I thought that conversation was with you.

I remember this conversation, it was in a eugenics thread, and I don't think it was Ichi.

Ah. Darn my long absence.