What about...the Coriolis effect?

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Tom Bishop

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2008, 03:04:09 PM »
Quote
What have I told you about depending on Tom? Trust me, there's a reliable counterpoint. Tom has implied that the air molecules have coloumbs. Which means that you should have a static shock when you go outside. Do you observe this? No. And RE gives an explanation for hurricanes, namely, the pressure gradient force, and the coriolis effect, which keeps storms together.

Uh, how does pressure and the Coriolis Effect on a Round Earth keep a wind system from falling apart?

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fshy94

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2008, 05:45:00 PM »
*sigh*. Once again you prove your idiocy. Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect

The whole thing. Maybe you may learn something. For a change.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

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Tom Bishop

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2008, 06:24:44 PM »
Quote
*sigh*. Once again you prove your idiocy. Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect

The whole thing. Maybe you may learn something. For a change.

That link doesn't tell us how wind systems are able to maintain their distinct disk shapes without falling apart. It just tells us that the Coriolis Effect compels the system to rotate in one direction rather than another.

So again, how do wind systems maintain their disk shapes without falling apart?

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fshy94

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2008, 06:29:52 PM »
Read the whole damn thing. Trust me, try harder. It's near the middle. I wanted you to learn something rather than dismiss it for a change. Maybe, one day, you'll thank me.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

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The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2008, 06:44:27 PM »
Why should he have to read an entire article just to appease you?  If you have a point to make, just quote it.  ::)
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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Loard Z

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2008, 06:54:06 PM »
Don't you know yet Roundy?

It's our job to get ranted and raved at by complete strangers for no reason, then to have to go and read articles that they suggest, then refute those arguments.

That's what we're here for, of course.

Welcome to FES ::)
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fshy94

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2008, 11:59:26 PM »
Why should he have to read an entire article just to appease you?  If you have a point to make, just quote it.  ::)

Twofold. One, that's what he does when he gives sources, and second, my thing keeps crashing when I try to copy/paste. When I get back to a real computer, I'll post it. Its not that hard to find, really. Its near the middle, where it talks about storm systems.
Proof the Earth is round!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=19341.0

Quote from: Althalus
The conspiracy has made it impossible to adequately explain FE theory in English.
^^LOL!

Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2009, 09:32:55 PM »
That link doesn't tell us how wind systems are able to maintain their distinct disk shapes without falling apart. It just tells us that the Coriolis Effect compels the system to rotate in one direction rather than another.

So again, how do wind systems maintain their disk shapes without falling apart?

Not quite sure what you mean by "maintain their disk shapes without falling apart" but I'm going to guess you mean that it doesn't provide an explanation for why the coriolis effect causes a circular motion of the winds that propel the currents in gyres? Rather than myself giving an explanation on this, I would suggest you read some of the sections in "Applied to Earth", particularly "Rotating sphere", "Meteorology" (Which speaks about the Rosbby number and your confusion on how the winds caused by the coriolis effect actually work), "Flow around a low-pressure area" and "Inertial circles".

I would also like to site an experiment by Ascher Shapiro (in the wikipedia article btw), in which the coriolis effect is even shown to exist in small scale water systems.

"Coriolis rotation can conceivably play a role on scales as small as a bathtub. It is a commonly held myth that the every-day rotation of a bathtub or toilet vortex is due to whether one is in the northern or southern hemisphere. An article in Nature, by Ascher Shapiro, describes an experiment in which all other forces to the system are removed by filling a 6 ft. tank with water and allowing it to settle for 24 hrs (to remove any internal velocity), in a room where the temperature has stabilized (temperature differences in the room can introduce forces inside the fluid). The drain plug is then very slowly removed, and tiny pieces of floating wood are used to observe rotation. During the first 12 to 15 mins, no rotation is observed. Then, a vortex appears and consistently begins to rotate in a counter-clockwise direction (the experiment was performed in the Northern hemisphere, in Boston, MA). This is repeated and the results averaged to make sure the effect is real. The Coriolis effect does indeed play a role in vortex rotation for draining liquids that have come to rest for a long time. ["Bath-Tub Vortex", Nature. Dec 15th, 1962. Vol 195, No. 4859, p. 1080-1081]"


---------------------Can you provide a better explanation for the existence of this?
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

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EarthIsSpherical

Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2009, 09:47:34 PM »
The Flat Earth does not spin. The Coriolis Effect can be explained as follows:

The two turnings of the winds between hemispheres create atmospheric "gears" with the teeth of these gears laying along the equator. The turning of the "gears" keep each other generally moving in opposite directions. Not literal gears, but ones consisting of wind currents rotating around a common center. When two wind currents moving in opposite directions collide at the equator it creates a reaction in accordance with Newtons third law: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The molecules of the air are shot outwards and away with a direction and magnitude directly opposite.

What sits over the equator to make this such a special area? The sun - which constantly imparts temperatures to the two hemispheres, rising pressure directly under its umbrella with its heat, gradually moving the winds within its circling spotlight outwards and away from the high pressures of the day out towards the low pressures of the night. It is analogous to a spoon churning a thick atmosphere in a vast mixing bowl. The spoon sifts through the atmosphere, imparting the molecules to its left in one direction, and imparting the molecules to its right in another. This effect builds up over time, creating predictable and recurring patterns of wind currents.

Here's an Illustration:



Where the teeth connect over the equator represents the area where the sun is sucking in and spitting out wind as it raises temperature and pressure beneath its vicinity. Over the course of countless years the wind currents have become stable and predictable, colliding at the equator and keeping neighboring wind systems moving in opposite directions through gearing.

But this effect is still not yet universal. There are still wind currents which occasionally wander into opposing hemispheres, violating the principles of the Coriolis Effect.

Wait, the only way there could be a equator was if there was a circumference... So you beleive in the round earth

Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2009, 10:39:17 PM »
I think when hes referring to the equator, he isn't referring to the same thing as a round earthers are...
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

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SupahLovah

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2009, 06:52:51 AM »
Yeah, he means the FE equivalent.
"Study Gravitation; It's a field with a lot of potential!"

Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2009, 07:29:04 AM »
Why was this moved to Q&A? Too old of a topic to revive? Or is it because people are just asking for a model from FErs? Because I mean, the lack of evidence FErs have for this could be considered evidence for RErs.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2009, 07:30:45 AM by Sadistic »
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

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SupahLovah

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2009, 07:40:22 AM »
Now, heres one I want to hear answered. How do FE'ers explain the Coriolis effect without the Earth being curved? And remember, the Coriolis effect affects hurricanes and so on, so it certainly exists. Well?
Looks like a question to me.
"Study Gravitation; It's a field with a lot of potential!"

Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2009, 01:26:01 AM »
Now, heres one I want to hear answered. How do FE'ers explain the Coriolis effect without the Earth being curved? And remember, the Coriolis effect affects hurricanes and so on, so it certainly exists. Well?
Looks like a question to me.

Oki, well then continue away with an explanation for water drainage please.
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

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markjo

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2009, 05:34:51 AM »
Oki, well then continue away with an explanation for water drainage please.

Water swirling down a drain is affected more by the shape of the plumbing and any residual currents in the water than by the shape or rotation of the earth.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2009, 11:47:50 AM »
Oki, well then continue away with an explanation for water drainage please.

Water swirling down a drain is affected more by the shape of the plumbing and any residual currents in the water than by the shape or rotation of the earth.

I do not disagree with that. I'm referring to the controlled experiment done by Ascher Shapiro I presented on the previous page, in which a draining liquid formed a vortex regardless of the various measures of control, leading us to believe that this coriolis effect myth might actually have some merit.
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2009, 04:09:47 PM »
The Flat Earth does not spin. The Coriolis Effect can be explained as follows:

The two turnings of the winds between hemispheres create atmospheric "gears" with the teeth of these gears laying along the equator. The turning of the "gears" keep each other generally moving in opposite directions. Not literal gears, but ones consisting of wind currents rotating around a common center. When two wind currents moving in opposite directions collide at the equator it creates a reaction in accordance with Newtons third law: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The molecules of the air are shot outwards and away with a direction and magnitude directly opposite.

What sits over the equator to make this such a special area? The sun - which constantly imparts temperatures to the two hemispheres, rising pressure directly under its umbrella with its heat, gradually moving the winds within its circling spotlight outwards and away from the high pressures of the day out towards the low pressures of the night. It is analogous to a spoon churning a thick atmosphere in a vast mixing bowl. The spoon sifts through the atmosphere, imparting the molecules to its left in one direction, and imparting the molecules to its right in another. This effect builds up over time, creating predictable and recurring patterns of wind currents.

Here's an Illustration:



Where the teeth connect over the equator represents the area where the sun is sucking in and spitting out wind as it raises temperature and pressure beneath its vicinity. Over the course of countless years the wind currents have become stable and predictable, colliding at the equator and keeping neighboring wind systems moving in opposite directions through gearing.

But this effect is still not yet universal. There are still wind currents which occasionally wander into opposing hemispheres, violating the principles of the Coriolis Effect.

Tom, is this your occupation? I mean do people buy things online, click adds, etc... that makes you your living? I'm just curious.

Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2009, 07:41:06 PM »
Bump? I would like more to be added to this FE hypothesis
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2009, 12:44:14 AM »
Come on! Clearly a wind explanation doesn't account for a coriolis effect that is present in a windless environment.
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

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SupahLovah

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2009, 09:49:49 AM »
How did he make the drain hole in the bucket? Was it conducted in a sealed container?
"Study Gravitation; It's a field with a lot of potential!"

Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2009, 05:52:46 PM »
How did he make the drain hole in the bucket? Was it conducted in a sealed container?

It said in the wikipedia article that he "The drain plug is then very slowly removed", which isn't an answer, but they cited the article so I'm sure it will have those details on the website.

Here is the wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect#Draining_in_bathtubs_and_toilets

"Coriolis rotation can conceivably play a role on scales as small as a bathtub. It is a commonly held myth that the every-day rotation of a bathtub or toilet vortex is due to whether one is in the northern or southern hemisphere. An article in Nature, by Ascher Shapiro, describes an experiment in which all other forces to the system are removed by filling a 6 ft. tank with water and allowing it to settle for 24 hrs (to remove any internal velocity), in a room where the temperature has stabilized (temperature differences in the room can introduce forces inside the fluid). The drain plug is then very slowly removed, and tiny pieces of floating wood are used to observe rotation. During the first 12 to 15 mins, no rotation is observed. Then, a vortex appears and consistently begins to rotate in a counter-clockwise direction (the experiment was performed in the Northern hemisphere, in Boston, MA). This is repeated and the results averaged to make sure the effect is real. The Coriolis effect does indeed play a role in vortex rotation for draining liquids that have come to rest for a long time. ["Bath-Tub Vortex", Nature. Dec 15th, 1962. Vol 195, No. 4859, p. 1080-1081]"
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2009, 01:36:20 PM »
Another bump, because I don't feel it should take this long to think up some bullshit like Bishop did.
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2009, 07:47:19 PM »
When I found out that the direction of water draining due to the Coriolis effect was a myth, I was baffled. I guess since I heard about the effect so young on the "Simpsons", it just forced its way into my mind. To think of it, Simpsons would be the perfect media outlet to brainwash the youth... So thank you for posting that article. I'm very glad to know that the same people who told me that are also under a belief of a myth, that the effect doesn't exist at all.

It does raise some important questions... But I've found only scrutiny after asking such questions. Or making forceful but accurate points...lol
« Last Edit: December 15, 2009, 07:49:17 PM by Viper-X »

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SupahLovah

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2009, 07:23:36 AM »
How did he make the drain hole in the bucket? Was it conducted in a sealed container?

It said in the wikipedia article that he "The drain plug is then very slowly removed", which isn't an answer, but they cited the article so I'm sure it will have those details on the website.

Here is the wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_effect#Draining_in_bathtubs_and_toilets

"Coriolis rotation can conceivably play a role on scales as small as a bathtub. It is a commonly held myth that the every-day rotation of a bathtub or toilet vortex is due to whether one is in the northern or southern hemisphere. An article in Nature, by Ascher Shapiro, describes an experiment in which all other forces to the system are removed by filling a 6 ft. tank with water and allowing it to settle for 24 hrs (to remove any internal velocity), in a room where the temperature has stabilized (temperature differences in the room can introduce forces inside the fluid). The drain plug is then very slowly removed, and tiny pieces of floating wood are used to observe rotation. During the first 12 to 15 mins, no rotation is observed. Then, a vortex appears and consistently begins to rotate in a counter-clockwise direction (the experiment was performed in the Northern hemisphere, in Boston, MA). This is repeated and the results averaged to make sure the effect is real. The Coriolis effect does indeed play a role in vortex rotation for draining liquids that have come to rest for a long time. ["Bath-Tub Vortex", Nature. Dec 15th, 1962. Vol 195, No. 4859, p. 1080-1081]"

When I went to watch a video cited, it wouldn't load for me on my work computer. :( I'll check out other citations.
"Study Gravitation; It's a field with a lot of potential!"

Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2009, 06:37:42 PM »
I demand my conspiracy theory for wishy water
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

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SupahLovah

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #55 on: December 23, 2009, 06:47:40 PM »
Conspiracy addition noted!
"Study Gravitation; It's a field with a lot of potential!"

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Euclid

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #56 on: December 24, 2009, 08:44:38 AM »
Quote from: Euclid
As is convention on this forum, the term gravity refers to the Newtonian force of universal gravitation.  Newtonian gravitation has since been superceded by General Relativity in which the phenomenon of universal gravitation is described by the curvature of spacetime through which gravity becomes a ficticious force in the same class as the of other pseudoforces like the centrifugal force.  Thus, the claim that gravity does not exist is always correct regardless of RE or FE, as long as one takes the conventional definitions on this forum.

The issue of whether General Relativity is a valid theory is up to debate among FE'ers.  Some, most notably James, discount it completely.  I believe, along with most, that it is the best theory for universal gravitation, and it is entirely applicable for explaining FE phenomena.  Among the phenomena predicted by General relativity is "gravitomagnetism".

The phenomenon of gravitomagnetism is easiest understood in terms of the old-fashioned concept of a gravitomagnetic field, in which gravitation is treated as a force.  It is similar to a magnetic field, except that in the case that moving charges create a magnetic field, moving masses create a gravitomagnetic field.  In the presence of a gravitomagnetic field, objects feel a force given by the Lorentz formula

F =  2 m v/c x Bg

where Bg is the gravitomagnetic field vector and v is the velocity vector of the object on which the force is acting.  This is incredibly similar to the formula for the Coriolis force,

F = 2 m v x ?.

Therefore, all that is required to simulate the Coriolis force is a gravitomagnetic field of similar magnitude to the quantity of ?c, where ? is the angular velocity of the RE.

And incidentally, there is a source that can create such a gravitomagnetic field, the rotating heavens.  Taken to be a roughly uniform rotating disk, the cosmos will create a nearly uniform gravitomagnetic field on the surface of the Earth, which we may take to be the cause of many phenomena attributed to the Coriolis force.
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist
Yes, thanks to the tireless efforts of Euclid and a few other mathematically-inclined members, electromagnetic acceleration is fast moving into the forefront of FE research.
8)

Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #57 on: December 24, 2009, 12:03:46 PM »
Quote from: Euclid
As is convention on this forum, the term gravity refers to the Newtonian force of universal gravitation.  Newtonian gravitation has since been superceded by General Relativity in which the phenomenon of universal gravitation is described by the curvature of spacetime through which gravity becomes a ficticious force in the same class as the of other pseudoforces like the centrifugal force.  Thus, the claim that gravity does not exist is always correct regardless of RE or FE, as long as one takes the conventional definitions on this forum.

The issue of whether General Relativity is a valid theory is up to debate among FE'ers.  Some, most notably James, discount it completely.  I believe, along with most, that it is the best theory for universal gravitation, and it is entirely applicable for explaining FE phenomena.  Among the phenomena predicted by General relativity is "gravitomagnetism".

The phenomenon of gravitomagnetism is easiest understood in terms of the old-fashioned concept of a gravitomagnetic field, in which gravitation is treated as a force.  It is similar to a magnetic field, except that in the case that moving charges create a magnetic field, moving masses create a gravitomagnetic field.  In the presence of a gravitomagnetic field, objects feel a force given by the Lorentz formula

F =  2 m v/c x Bg

where Bg is the gravitomagnetic field vector and v is the velocity vector of the object on which the force is acting.  This is incredibly similar to the formula for the Coriolis force,

F = 2 m v x ?.

Therefore, all that is required to simulate the Coriolis force is a gravitomagnetic field of similar magnitude to the quantity of ?c, where ? is the angular velocity of the RE.

And incidentally, there is a source that can create such a gravitomagnetic field, the rotating heavens.  Taken to be a roughly uniform rotating disk, the cosmos will create a nearly uniform gravitomagnetic field on the surface of the Earth, which we may take to be the cause of many phenomena attributed to the Coriolis force.

Then why does the water rotate in different directions depending on what hemisphere your in?
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy

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Euclid

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Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #58 on: December 24, 2009, 12:45:10 PM »
Because the the heavens rotate in the opposite direction in the other hemi"sphere".
Quote from: Roundy the Truthinessist
Yes, thanks to the tireless efforts of Euclid and a few other mathematically-inclined members, electromagnetic acceleration is fast moving into the forefront of FE research.
8)

Re: What about...the Coriolis effect?
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2010, 12:14:13 AM »
Because the the heavens rotate in the opposite direction in the other hemi"sphere".

So there are two different heavens, one in one hemisphere and one in the other?
"So now we know. Pigs are horses. Girls are boys. War is peace." -Arundhati Roy