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Nuclear Power Exaggerated
17 November:
--- Quote from: beast on March 03, 2007, 03:04:04 AM ---Note that a 20 megaton bomb would completely destroy buildings within 6.4 km, destroy most buildings within 17 km and damage all buildings within 47 km. The largest ever tested nuclear weapon had a yield of over 50 megaton, and that was in 1961. Do you think that nuclear technology has improved since then, or stayed the same?
...
The US will not carpet bomb Iran and certainly would never drop a nuclear weapon on that country. Iran is a country with a GDPof less than 2 years of the US military budget, and the US military budget accounts for 3.2% of the total US GDP. Such actions would be considered grievous war crimes, both internationally and within the US. Unless you're expecting the US to turn into a genuine totalitarian dictatorship within the near future, have no doubt that the action of killing 70 million innocent people would be held to account by the American public, American law, American politicians, and that of the world as well. Source, source.
In fact in the current political climate, it is very hard to see a genuine war breaking out with the US and Iran. Given the political and military disasters that are Afghanistan and Iraq, and the fact that, despite counter claims by irrational ignorant political hacks, the US is still a democracy, it is very hard to see any serious support in the US for more serious military action against another Middle Eastern nation. At best we will see more serious sanctions and possibly air bombing at the extreme. Beyond that, it is impossible to see the Democratic senate or the next president supporting ground troops in the US, at least until Afghanistan and Iraq have been better dealt with.
This claim that carpet bombing Iran would lead to mass terrorist attacks in the US is also completely bogus. Do you have any evidence to support that claim? Of course you don't, because all you post is bullshit. If you don't believe that the Islamic Middle East has all the motivation and belief to carry out terrorist attacks against you already, you really need to take a look at reality. Iraq is in ruins, Afghanistan is run by warlords, Iran is oppressed by sanctions and threats, as is Syria. It's estimated that over 57,000 civilians have been killed so far in the Iraq war alone. There is no reason to believe that terrorist attacks will significantly increase because of carpet bombing Iran. Terrorists, fuelled by their irrational beliefs and a disgusting religion, already want to kill you, but they can't, and they're focusing on more practical goals - like building insecurity and hatred in their region. Source
--- End quote ---
The politicial bias of beast's statement is so obvious and has been dealt with so much already, the focus here will exclusively be upon nuclear weapons propaganda.
First, wikipedia (which beast has elsewhere quoted in his defense of the reality of "nuclear" weapons) does not hardly have the final word on truth.
Second, the principle verifiable evidence for the existence of nuclear weapons is the bombing of two cities in Japan in 1945 - Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The chief inspector of the US Secretary of War for these cities in the aftermath of the bombings was US Army Major Alexander de Seversky. He investigated many bombed cities throughout Japan. On each occasion, he first conducted an aerial survey followed by a through investigation on the ground, and he detected a similar pattern in every city evidently due to the methods of the bombers as well as the nature of the targets bombed. He was prepared for and anticipated quite a shock in Hiroshima yet found it to be completely the same as the rest of the cities he had surveyed. There was no bald spot at the centre of the blast. The metal framework of buildings standing in the middle epicentre of the bomb blast were intact. Some bricks had been blown out of those in the very centre, but the Hiroshima hospital only a mile away from the center of the blast suffered nothing more than having its windows blown out and no people in the building were even hurt. The greatest damage was NOT done by the blast but by fire as an after effect which accounted for at least 60,000 of the 200,000 persons who perished according to his report. Ratty wooden houses of which there were many constituted the main structural damage. Seversky concluded that the bomb had the effect of a large incendiary as most of the damage was caused by fire alone and not by the blast. He also stated that a great deal of wood remained in the rubble of the main area of the blast indicating that those buildings had not been incinerated by the heat of a blast but were destroyed afterwards by the fire that resulted from the bomb. He stated that a fleet of 200 B-29's which each dropped a routine load of incendiaries would have accomplished the same thing.
The same applies to Nagasaki. As a matter of fact, the Nagasaki bomb was alleged to have been more powerful. However, the principle area affected in Hiroshima constituted roughly a four square mile area with the blast in the centre (i.e. roughly a one mile radius around the centre of huts toppled by fires) yet the principle area affected in Nagasaki's allegedly more powerful bomb was only one solitary square mile.
Seversky wondered at why Nagasaki and especally Hiroshima had even been chosen as targets since they had no military value. They would very easily be destroyed by fire as the majoity of the structures in these two cities were rickety termite eaten poor Japanese wooden houses. However, they would easily serve the purpose of someone planning to elicit maximum propaganda value for the amount of destruction caused as such structures are easily destroyed by fire. (By the way, as far as propaganda goes one should also be careful of quoting the figures of the Bomb MUseum in Hiroshima as it admittedly derives its figure for the number of dead from the bomb from the deaths of anyone who was within the affected area within two weeks after the bombing including rescue workers, reporters, etc. REGUARDLESS OF WHEN THEY DIE AND IS STILL COUNTING THESE DEATHS EVEN TODAY.)
Major Seversky stated that the effect of one of these so-called atomic bombs dropped on New York City would affect an area much smaller than one of the five main buroughs.
As far as the retort to Seversky's article in the May 1946 issue of Reader's Digest, NONE OF THE AUTHORITIES INTERVIEWED CONTESTED SEVERSKY'S DESCRIPTION OF HIROSHIMA OR NAGASAKI OR THE FACTS HE STATED. They only argued his opinions such as his comparison with New York City and his allegation that the incendiaries of 200 B-29's would have accomplished the same effect.
I invite beast to visit for himself a library and read the results of of Seversky's investigation in the February 1946 issue of Reader's Digest in an article entitled 'Atomic Hysteria' which received a mountain of protest by so-called experts in america who never came any closer than 5000 miles away from Japan and who yet insisted that Seversky's opinions were unfounded. Do see their reply three months later in the May issue in which the author interviewed many military and scientific authorities in an effort to refute Seversky's article. Note: these articles were apparently censored from the British edition, but they do appear in the American editions of Reader's Digest for February and May 1946.
Beast may take course to cite diverse alleged nuclear tests (below ground, above ground, et cetera) throughout the Cold War in a number of large countries. However, these tests including their precise location and especiallt timing were always military secrets.
We are supposed to believe the propaganda that we were racing the Germans to build the bomb, and miraculously developed it at the end of the War as opposed to having it ready to use throughout the War. The more a weapon is used, the more it is open to investigation and expose of the ruse - the same reason the alleged Moon missions stopped.
Radiation fallout? What a load of rot.
As part of the synthetically manufactured atomic hysteria In 1947, twenty-six young men came who worked with these allegedly WMD nuclear weapons came into bodily contact with plutonium. In 1980, a medical survey was conducted of these twenty-six men who lived with plutonium inside them for 32 years and concluded that they had all lived normal lives and only two of them had died - one was run over by a truck and the other for a similarly irrelevant reason.
(EDIT: This information appeared in the Financial Times in 1980.)
And do not tell me that I am not qualified to write about this as my sources speaks for themselves. You can begin with Major de Seversky. And incidentally, I am myself a US Navy submarine veteran who was assigend to an SSBN.
What would be the point of such propaganda?
Observe how the US garners what little support it has for invading and manipulating those countries it does not control already or choose not to follow its belligerant imperialism.
And while we are talking about Iran (this goes for cheesejof as well), why do you focus on Iran? Do you let Bush choose your enemies? What makes him your mind?
What about Turkey for example? Since beast hates islam so much, why don't we read something from beast talking about racism and terrorism by the Grey Wolves or a similar group? They easily have far more ambitious plans than the Iranians who comparatively keep to the themselves.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/archive/story33.html
http://www.rozanehmagazine.com/NoveDec05/aazariINDEX.HTML
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Pyrochimp:
This is almost in the league of thinking that the Earth is flat :P
beast:
So you're saying that all this damage was caused by a fire?
Or are these photos fake?
And how do you explain images such as these? Some guy just came along and painted them?
It is ridiculous and false to claim that nuclear bombs do not exist.
Masterchef:
--- Quote from: 17 November on March 07, 2007, 05:39:26 PM ---...a load of baseless claims...
--- End quote ---
Source?
Wolfwood:
--- Quote from: beast on March 08, 2007, 05:50:13 AM ---So you're saying that all this damage was caused by a fire?
Or are these photos fake?
And how do you explain images such as these? Some guy just came along and painted them?
It is ridiculous and false to claim that nuclear bombs do not exist.
--- End quote ---
-raises hand-
Yeah out of curiosity, those buildings standing in the middle of the wasteland? Why didn't THEY get leveled too?
And yeah I believe America did cause serious fire damage. We did what is called a fire storm on a few Japanese cities. We dropped a few lines worth of fire bombs in a specific pattern which drew an X or a * on the city. After that mother nature took over by whipping the flames into a massive inferno of fire and high speed winds.
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