"Weightlessness" and faked video evidence

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"Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« on: July 12, 2013, 09:20:34 PM »
Preface:

Orbital mechanics require a round Earth, especially for the orbits NASA claims to enter and NORAD claims to track. Thus, various photographs from the ISS (or other extraterrestrial missions) have been claimed to be faked, as have videos of extra-vehicular activity (EVA) around the ISS (or other extraterrestrial missions).

Now, this isn't the topic for defining 'zero-g' or 'weightlessness' so I'll use those terms to describe the appearance of no gravity that is claimed to be experienced in orbit (and orbital mechanics predicts).

We on Earth, with easily-seen and accepted technology (ie airplanes), can reproduce this effect for short periods of time, usually about 30 seconds (followed by a period of about 20 meter-per-second-per-second acceleration upward as the airplane prepares for the next 30-second stint of zero-g. This is how the zero-g scenes were produced in the movie Apollo 13

However, there exists a #ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">tour of the ISS, as of 2012, with obvious zero-g effects lasting much, much longer than 30 seconds.

My question is this: if the ISS is faked, how do they create this extended video with weightlessness? Alternatively, please point out the evidence for how this has been faked.

Note 1: this topic is not about the existence of or non-existence of gravity. In UA, the only way I can see this is if the video set were careening toward the flat earth at 9.8 m/s/s.

Note 2: this topic is not about the location of the video set / ISS. If it were at the bottom of the ocean, it would still experience 'gravity' as the rest of the Earth, no matter what model.

Note 3: this topic is not about what causes gravity: be it UA, see above. If it's atmosphere, there's obviously atmosphere in this set. If it's aether or whatever, and you want to use that to explain the above question, please explain how it could affect this video set differently than it affects the rest of the world (and maybe why haven't there been built weightless resorts in this awesome place).

Note 4: anything either not answering the above question or agreeing that this question need be answered should be considered either 'low-content' or 'derailment'. A statement saying 'I don't know, but I'll look into it' or the like is an attempt to answer the question, and I'll gladly accept it, so long as the matter isn't considered closed until answered properly.

Note 5: if a theory is posed, and you know that theory to be wrong, please reply with something more than "WRONG!" Moderators: please be diligent about low-content posts. I want this to be a true discussion, and any post that says "You're wrong" should contain an answering theory or explanation as to why the posed theory is wrong.

Note 6: if a reply to this topic is in violation of any of these, any reply containing simply a quote and the words "Note 4" (et al) should not be considered low-content, please. I want this to stay on-topic, and pointing out where a reply errs without feeding a troll is a method I'd like to test.

Thank you, and I apologize for the long post. You may watch the video below for quick access, or follow #ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">this link.

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">International Space Station Tour 2012 (HD) ISS Tour
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 09:25:18 PM by Alex Tomasovich »

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2013, 05:11:03 PM »
I suspect they create an anti-gravity environment here on Earth.  However, I cannot prove it...yet.

So, they're somehow accelerating the whole set upwards at 9.8 m/s2 without accelerating the set upwards at 9.8 m/s2.

Yeah, because it's so much easier to do that than to actually put something in orbit....

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Shmeggley

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Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2013, 07:48:04 PM »
I suspect they create an anti-gravity environment here on Earth.  However, I cannot prove it...yet.

So you have no problem believing in a secret anti gravity technique on absolutely no evidence, yet you can't believe in space flight based in technology that's been around for 60 years? Do you really not see the problem with this line of thinking?
Giess what? I am a tin foil hat conspiracy lunatic who knows nothing... See what I'm getting at here?

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2013, 06:20:29 AM »
I think I've figured out how they do this floating about stuff. It's been bugging me for ages, especially their faces always being flushed like they are all suffering from severe high blood pressure and also their hair sticking up.
It also makes sense as to why their t shirts always look weird and why their necklaces  and watches float.

I'll let you all know later on.

First off, YAY!

Second, when experiencing gravity, your blood is being pulled toward the Earth (or UA or whatever you want to believe in). Our bodies have to fight that, to make sure our brains get enough oxygen. Then, suddenly, without gravity, our bodies don't have to fight anymore. So this system which is normally shoving blood upwards to fight gravity is now just shoving blood upwards, making their upper bodies swell. (That's why they're also stuffed up (they sound like they have a cold)).

As to their clothes looking weird, that's because we're not used to seeing things without gravity pull them down. It's why the moon videos (whether real or fake) look odd when dist gets kicked, because we're not used to seeing dust fly in parabolic arcs.

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Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2013, 07:51:45 AM »
It's called CGI. NASA consulted on creating the weightless scenes for the movie Space Cowboys, and they didn't use any vomit comets for that production.

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DuckDodgers

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Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2013, 08:00:25 AM »
It's called CGI. NASA consulted on creating the weightless scenes for the movie Space Cowboys, and they didn't use any vomit comets for that production.
Ironically enough I watched that movie over the weekend, the satellite and shuttle scenes looked decently real, but were likely created by using models.  The weightless scenes looked horribly rigid and the EVA scenes were very blatant CGI creations. Not to mention the amount of time needed to create these CGI videos does not match up with the frequency of their release.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2013, 09:22:48 AM »
It's called CGI. NASA consulted on creating the weightless scenes for the movie Space Cowboys, and they didn't use any vomit comets for that production.
How do you know that CGI has been used ?
Please give your zetetic path to this conclusion.

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2013, 03:52:51 PM »
I think I've figured out how they do this floating about stuff. It's been bugging me for ages, especially their faces always being flushed like they are all suffering from severe high blood pressure and also their hair sticking up.
It also makes sense as to why their t shirts always look weird and why their necklaces  and watches float.

I'll let you all know later on.

First off, YAY!

Second, when experiencing gravity, your blood is being pulled toward the Earth (or UA or whatever you want to believe in). Our bodies have to fight that, to make sure our brains get enough oxygen. Then, suddenly, without gravity, our bodies don't have to fight anymore. So this system which is normally shoving blood upwards to fight gravity is now just shoving blood upwards, making their upper bodies swell. (That's why they're also stuffed up (they sound like they have a cold)).

As to their clothes looking weird, that's because we're not used to seeing things without gravity pull them down. It's why the moon videos (whether real or fake) look odd when dist gets kicked, because we're not used to seeing dust fly in parabolic arcs.

Just to clear up any misconceptions, astronauts on the ISS are not experiencing "zero gravity." They are experiencing the same gravitational pull that the earth has on us. The reason that they float is that they are actually falling (at 9.8 m/s/s) but they have enough angular velocity so that the ground never catches up to them and they are always "missing" the earth. I'm sure most of you knew that but just thought I would throw it out.

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2013, 04:14:02 PM »
Just to clear up any misconceptions, astronauts on the ISS are not experiencing "zero gravity." They are experiencing the same gravitational pull that the earth has on us. The reason that they float is that they are actually falling (at 9.8 m/s/s) but they have enough angular velocity so that the ground never catches up to them and they are always "missing" the earth. I'm sure most of you knew that but just thought I would throw it out.
Now, this isn't the topic for defining 'zero-g' or 'weightlessness' so I'll use those terms to describe the appearance of no gravity that is claimed to be experienced in orbit (and orbital mechanics predicts).

Careful with the derailment-bait, there, though I appreciate the post.

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2013, 06:29:09 PM »
How can you take this "space" program seriously?  NASA doesn't seem to.  What a joke!

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Space Oddity

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Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2013, 06:58:23 PM »
How can you take this "space" program seriously?  NASA doesn't seem to.  What a joke!

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Space Oddity

As has been pointed out, astronauts are entitled to their free time too. What they choose to do with it is their business. If they want to play a tune on their guitar and post the video on the 'net, that's up to them.
Quote from: jtelroy
...the FE'ers still found a way to deny it. Not with counter arguments. Not with proof of any kind. By simply denying it.

"Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2013, 07:14:00 PM »
How can you take this "space" program seriously?  NASA doesn't seem to.  What a joke!

#ws" class="bbc_link" target="_blank">Space Oddity

As has been pointed out, astronauts are entitled to their free time too. What they choose to do with it is their business. If they want to play a tune on their guitar and post the video on the 'net, that's up to them.

Bah, if they took their program seriously, there'd be no such thing as free time! Did you know that astronauts (cosmonauts, what have you) also get to sleep?! Outrageous, I say! I for one cannot believe in an organization that employs scientists who are creative and wish to share their free time with the rest of the world, those generous jerks.

You know what? I'd sure as hell believe NASA a lot more if they showed us less videos. And all the videos must come from NASA, ESA, or Roscosmos. None of this 'individual', low-budget, hand-held crap like Hadfield and Pettit show. No, only from official sources, and then as rare as possible. The fewer examples of space they can show us, the more sure I am what they're doing is real!

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2013, 08:11:51 PM »
nuclear submarines have scientists ... they should make a music video too


and why dont they ever look at the moon through the iss , only the earth lol.. but after this post I bet they read this and say hey lets get some moon pics, good idea thinker.. of course they wont cut me a check.

note to nasa.. if you hire me ill stop posting here and give ideas to help fake more stuff.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 08:14:17 PM by Thinker »

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DuckDodgers

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Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2013, 08:13:44 PM »
nuclear submarines have scientists ... they should make a music video too
They do make videos, but they are constantly being taken down and their lives are being threatened because of treason charges.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2013, 08:16:37 PM »
nuclear submarines have scientists ... they should make a music video too
They do make videos, but they are constantly being taken down and their lives are being threatened because of treason charges.

exactly

they treat this space travel stuff like a made for kids disney movie.. only problem is most adults are mental children too. its really sad.. it really is.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 08:19:07 PM by Thinker »

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DuckDodgers

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Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2013, 08:19:59 PM »
nuclear submarines have scientists ... they should make a music video too
They do make videos, but they are constantly being taken down and their lives are being threatened because of treason charges.

exactly
So who is going to charge treason against scientists filming the inside of a multinational piece of machinery which is used for scientific discoveries?  Is the U.S. going to charge a Canadian for treason, or should Russia charge him, maybe Italy?
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2013, 08:30:55 PM »
nuclear submarines have scientists ... they should make a music video too
They do make videos, but they are constantly being taken down and their lives are being threatened because of treason charges.

exactly
So who is going to charge treason against scientists filming the inside of a multinational piece of machinery which is used for scientific discoveries?  Is the U.S. going to charge a Canadian for treason, or should Russia charge him, maybe Italy?

When things are serious they get taken seriously.

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2013, 09:29:00 PM »
When things are serious they get taken seriously.

I guess I'm misunderstanding 'serious' as in 'serious as a nuclear submarine'.

Nuclear submarines often contain nuclear missiles and other national secrets, so it's a good idea to keep them secret. The ISS contains science equipment, experiments, and a guitar (non-inclusive list). None of that is meant to be secret. So what if the Russians figure out that Don Pettit grew a bean in a plastic baggy in space?

Who cares if people figure out how Hadfield shaves without a sink?

What secrets are lost if we figure out how Nyberg washes her hair in orbit?

Telltale signs of a conspiracy and/or coverup is usually a complete lack of information, of everything being held behind a classified door. "How high is the ISS?" "CLASSIFIED!" "Where is the ISS?" "CLASSIFIED" That would be suspicious.

But instead there's a plethora of information. It's almost as if the countries involved in this this massive international project for the betterment of the human race wanted people to know as much as they could about it.

Since when is sharing information suspicious? I may have missed the day in Coverups 101 where they said "When you want to fool someone, provide as much information about everything involving the cover-up as you possibly can!."

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2013, 07:26:59 AM »
A variation of the Tesla hybrid magnet.

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2013, 08:33:50 AM »
I have suspected they float with the use of magnets.  But that doesn't explain their clothing and hair looking the way they do.

Nor does it explain how they can move about at will (or how they have metal objects that also float around). Levitating objects with magnetic fields require a special shape of magnet, as well as magnetic fields that are incredibly intense (16 T to levitate a small frog). Not only that, the stable zone is only stable in one direction [1]. But in these videos we clearly see people moving about at will.

Then you have the flotation of things that are completely non-magnetic, like plastic. Different matterials have different levitation power (meaning yes, it might be possible to levitate a human, but their bones would be hanging down against their body), so to see everything floating around is very telling that magnets are not the way this is produced.

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2013, 08:45:45 AM »

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2013, 08:54:56 AM »
I believe they might be suspended in a transparent form of liquid oxygen or other breathable liquid. 


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DuckDodgers

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Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2013, 09:03:30 AM »
I believe they might be suspended in a transparent form of liquid oxygen or other breathable liquid.
Wouldn't this alter the sound of their voices?
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2013, 09:12:10 AM »
I think it would a minor effort and expense to add in voices after shooting the initial 'weightless' footage.

This is nothing but conjecture of course, just saying its possible.

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2013, 09:27:33 AM »
I think it would a minor effort and expense to add in voices after shooting the initial 'weightless' footage.

This is nothing but conjecture of course, just saying its possible.

Not to mention a) liquid oxygen is extremely corrosive and extremely cold and b) floating through a liquid looks entirely different than floating through air. And rolls of tape don't float in any liquid that would support a human.

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2013, 09:57:54 AM »
Not to mention a) liquid oxygen is extremely corrosive and extremely cold and b) floating through a liquid looks entirely different than floating through air. And rolls of tape don't float in any liquid that would support a human.

Perhaps the breathable liquid they are using is more viscous, dense and less corrosive then pure liquid oxygen. 

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2013, 10:05:44 AM »
Not to mention a) liquid oxygen is extremely corrosive and extremely cold and b) floating through a liquid looks entirely different than floating through air. And rolls of tape don't float in any liquid that would support a human.

Perhaps the breathable liquid they are using is more viscous, dense and less corrosive then pure liquid oxygen.

If it's dense enough such that rolls of tape are neutrally boyant, humans would float directly to the top. If it's more viscous than air, it'd visibly hamper the astronauts' motion.

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2013, 10:12:36 AM »
If it's dense enough such that rolls of tape are neutrally boyant, humans would float directly to the top. If it's more viscous than air, it'd visibly hamper the astronauts' motion.

Could it be the case that these sorts of issues are forseen before shooting and the appropriate actors are counterweighted appropriately?

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Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2013, 10:19:38 AM »
Not to mention a) liquid oxygen is extremely corrosive and extremely cold and b) floating through a liquid looks entirely different than floating through air. And rolls of tape don't float in any liquid that would support a human.

Perhaps the breathable liquid they are using is more viscous, dense and less corrosive then pure liquid oxygen.
Objects of varying density all appear to act in a similar manner, neither falling our rising.  In a liquid environment on Earth you would expect to see things behaving differently from each other.
markjo, what force can not pass through a solid or liquid?
Magnetism for one and electric is the other.

Re: "Weightlessness" and faked video evidence
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2013, 10:30:23 AM »
If it's dense enough such that rolls of tape are neutrally boyant, humans would float directly to the top. If it's more viscous than air, it'd visibly hamper the astronauts' motion.

Could it be the case that these sorts of issues are forseen before shooting and the appropriate actors are counterweighted appropriately?

I guess it could, if you could find evidence of the weights hanging off their bodies. Think to that scene in Pirates of the Caribbean where Bloom and Depp are walking along the bottom of the ocean with an overturned boat. To do the outer images (showing feet sticking out of the bottom of the boat, walking along the ground) they had the boat filled with water and had quite a few weights along the inside.

Notice they never show you the inside of the boat from the outside.

What you're suggesting is something like that, but where there's nowhere to hide that amount of weight.

And again, if the liquid is more viscous than air, the effect will be extremely noticeable, especially in their hair.