Firmament speculation

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cartwheelnurd

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Firmament speculation
« on: December 11, 2012, 06:33:21 PM »
I know there is no way to know this, but try to answer the questrions with your a=opinions as best you can


Firmament:

What is it made of?

How high up is it?

Does it move at all?

What color is it?

WHat shape is it?

Could you ascend it at all?
Thanks:)
Ravioli is how the universe fills a small part of itself with cheese.

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cartwheelnurd

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2012, 05:32:20 PM »
Nobody knows? I am surprised!
Ravioli is how the universe fills a small part of itself with cheese.

Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2012, 10:19:12 PM »
It is composed of air - largely a mixture of oxygen, nitrogen and carbon dioxide.

It doesn't come to an exact end - it definitely tapers off somewhere like 800 miles above the Earth. But most of its substance is contained within 100 miles of the planet.

Yes, it does move - it rotates with the earth, and besides this is made of air currents influenced by temperature fluctuations, etc.

It is colorless, but appears blue during the day due to the refraction of sunlight.

It does not have an inherent shape - it simply adheres to the Earth's surface.

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Pongo

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2012, 10:49:59 PM »
I'd prefer not to speculate. So much is still unknown.

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cartwheelnurd

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2012, 07:39:01 AM »
It is composed of air - largely a mixture of oxygen, nitrogen and carbon dioxide.

It doesn't come to an exact end - it definitely tapers off somewhere like 800 miles above the Earth. But most of its substance is contained within 100 miles of the planet.

Yes, it does move - it rotates with the earth, and besides this is made of air currents influenced by temperature fluctuations, etc.

It is colorless, but appears blue during the day due to the refraction of sunlight.

It does not have an inherent shape - it simply adheres to the Earth's surface.

Yes but if it is made only of air, how does it protect the earth so well? What happens when it hits things like space dust and rocks?

But thanks for the speculation this is all we got from pongo:

I'd prefer not to speculate. So much is still unknown.

:P
Ravioli is how the universe fills a small part of itself with cheese.

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Thork

Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2012, 08:21:39 AM »
I am one of the very few flat earthers that advocates a firmament. In fact its probably my fault this thread was made as I bang on about it from time to time. But this is because it so eloquently explains many of the quirks of flat earth theory. Whilst I know the round earthers will not believe anything I write, I will elaborate and hopefully win over a few flat earthers.

So, the firmament.

It does pop up in classical FET quite a lot. Below you can see a guy ( I understand he is a monk) who reached the edge of the earth, lifted the curtain of the sky (firmament) and was able to see the inners workings of the universe. This ties in with the theories on celestial gears but that's another topic.



The dictionary definition is
firmament  (ˈfɜːməmənt)
n
the expanse of the sky; heavens
[C13: from Late Latin firmāmentum  sky (considered as fixed above the earth).

I like the description below
Quote from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmament
The firmament was a great tent-like ceiling made of solid crystalline-like material

So that's what it is.

What is does or rather the questions it answers.

It explains why the air doesn't all spill over the edge of a flat earth. The firmament keeps it all in.
It explains light distortion in the atmosphere. Long derided as 'bendy light' by round earthers, I suspect the distortions of sun light to be due to refraction of sunlight through this solid crystalline-like material. the light is being bent by this crystal bowl over earth.
It explains how high frequency radio signals can be bounced off a ceiling and back down to other ground based receivers.

Now the picture above shows the sun, moon and stars inside the firmament. I suspect this not to be the case. I suspect all celestial bodies to be outside the firmament as below.

I believe the firmament to be about 700 miles up and suspect that was the height Rowbotham calculated as the sun's by mistake. The sun actually being the 3000 miles up that Voliva calculated.

Does it move? Why would it?
What colour is it? As I said, its a clear crystalline substance.
Could you ascend to it? Erm, I guess so with the right technology. Its certainly possible to penetrate it temporarily as the larger meteors are able to push their way in, but most are vaporised on contact.
The x-15 flew at 108km for the world record. The ISS is allegedly only between 330km and 410km. I know the ISS is a hoax but even still its some way off 700 miles up. It would be well inside.
What shape is it? Looks a bit like the artists impression below.

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cartwheelnurd

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2012, 11:50:56 AM »
Thanks thork.

Also, is the firmament what causes the "bending" of light that you talk about?
Ravioli is how the universe fills a small part of itself with cheese.

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Major Twang

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2012, 11:54:27 AM »
Is the CMBR coming from it ?

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Tintagel

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2012, 12:48:48 PM »
My own personal speculation - it's clear that something *like* the firmament exists, but I don't believe it exists as a solid crystalline structure because as Thork mentioned, we know that objects from outside it have come in.

The "firmament" is a metaphorical name given to the edge of the sky - the outside of the atmosphere.  I'm an aether advocate, so I would say that what most would call the firmament is actually the aetheric whirlpool around the earth created by UA.  This aether swirls above our atmosphere in a sort of flattened hemisphere.  Aether transmits light, and so it is responsible for the extreme refractions we see above us, like sunsets.  I'm not certain of altitude, but Thork's reasoning behind the 700 mile height sounds plausible enough.

(This aether is also rushing up around us as we accelerate and, I believe, transmits the light from the stars below the earth-disc up and around the edge - revealing the sky of the southern hemidisc and southern celestial pole to anyone far enough south looking toward the edge - but that is a topic for another discussion)

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hoppy

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2012, 01:19:45 PM »
The Bible says the the dome is hung like hammed sheets. It is probably made of ice or water, the sky is blue, somewhat like the blue of the oceans.
God is real.                                         
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9665708/Flat-Earth-Bible-02-of-10-The-Flat-Earth

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cartwheelnurd

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2012, 04:52:57 PM »
The Bible says the the dome is hung like hammed sheets. It is probably made of ice or water, the sky is blue, somewhat like the blue of the oceans.

How does one "ham" a sheet?

And since when can the bible be taken literally, or used as evidence?
Ravioli is how the universe fills a small part of itself with cheese.

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Wolf

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2012, 01:14:08 AM »
Oh my! There it is! The proof that we've all been waiting for! Wow! What a discovery! Good grief! This is amazing! Incredible! Just unbelievable! Awesome!

It does pop up in classical FET quite a lot. Below you can see a guy ( I understand he is a monk) who reached the edge of the earth, lifted the curtain of the sky (firmament) and was able to see the inners workings of the universe. This ties in with the theories on celestial gears but that's another topic.



A drawing is just so much better than a photoshopped photo.

And just a correction:
The sun actually being the 3000 miles up that Voliva decided.

The earth is actually round. Look:


Please, please give something scientific as proof of this firmament and the distance of the sun from the earth. I'm begging for some mathematics or science to back these claims up. Please!

Not one single person has seen this firmament and not a single person who believes the earth is flat has done something scientific to discover it.

All I see on this forum is Flat Earth believers claiming things with absolutely zero mathematics and scientific experiment and people trying to debunk this with intense and accurate science and mathematics. I have raised a few basic points and questions which are of very easily observable phenomena and basic mathematics and those points and questions are flat ignored. Why is this?
lol - they actually believe the earth is flat!

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sandokhan

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2012, 01:46:54 AM »
I am pleased to find two FE who do agree with existence of the Schumann Cavity (a better name than heavenly dome).

The existence of the aether barrier which separates the orbits of the Sun/Moon/Black Sun/Antimoon/planets/stars from our atmosphere was proved by G.B. Airy in 1871:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,30499.msg1231580.html#msg1231580


ISS/ATLANTIS SOLAR/MOON TRANSIT VIDEOS; true distance Earth-Sun (some 12-15 km):

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,55467.msg1385207.html#msg1385207


BLACK SUN PHOTOGRAPHS IN ANTARCTICA:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,55467.msg1385209.html#msg1385209

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,55467.msg1385488.html#msg1385488


The Black Sun orbits beyond the Schumann Cavity, the cavity itself is an energy barrier/shield, which is transparent as we can see clearly from the photograph.


There is also another thread (solar energy): the Sun activates both aether (medium through which the ether travels) and ether (telluric currents) for heat/light.

Here is an extraordinary book from 1878 (Principles of Light and Color) that explains how the subquark strings are related to thermal/light effects:

The Principles of Light and Color by Edwin D Babbitt, 1878
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 01:52:14 AM by sandokhan »

Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2012, 02:03:11 AM »
I am pleased to find two FE who do agree with existence of the Schumann Cavity (a better name than heavenly dome).

BLACK SUN PHOTOGRAPHS IN ANTARCTICA:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,55467.msg1385209.html#msg1385209

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,55467.msg1385488.html#msg1385488


Levee, what does the black sun's orbit have to do with the moon's phases? You realize the "black sun" only makes its appearance during the new moon phase of the moon, right?  Seems a little suspicious.

Levee, also a tip: give us your view on things. It's really annoying for you to just post a bunch of links. Most of them are way off topic, too.
Quote from: Heiwa
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sandokhan

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2012, 03:23:29 AM »
The Black Sun causes the lunar eclipse.

The resultant orbital lag between the sun and the moon causes the phases of the moon; here is the book of the luminaries (one of the oldest textbook on astronomy) explaining the phases of the moon on a flat earth:

http://www.johnpratt.com/items/docs/enoch.html#Enoch_72


My view: flat earth, disk shaped planets/stars, sun-earth distance some 12-15 km, diameter of the sun 600 meters, no attractive gravity, piri reis inspired map of the FE world, existence of both aether and ether, new radical chronology.

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Wolf

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2012, 03:45:55 AM »
Yeah. A 600m disc generates 8947593009182886048 kJ of energy which reaches the earth's surface per day.

You're a troll.
lol - they actually believe the earth is flat!

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Major Twang

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2012, 03:56:47 AM »
My view: flat earth, disk shaped planets/stars, sun-earth distance some 12-15 km, diameter of the sun 600 meters, no attractive gravity, piri reis inspired map of the FE world, existence of both aether and ether, new radical chronology.

The sun is 12-15km away ??  You get crazier by the day Mate.

I drove to my parents house 500km North a few weeks ago.  Did the sun follow me up the M1 ?

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Tintagel

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2012, 07:42:35 AM »
Please, please give something scientific as proof of this firmament and the distance of the sun from the earth. I'm begging for some mathematics or science to back these claims up. Please!

You must have missed the word "speculation" in the thread's title.  As the firmament (whatever it may or may not be) is 700 miles (or so) up, no one's ever been there to investigate.  As has been pointed out, even the (alleged) ISS is only about 200 miles up.  This is all based upon observation and inference.   For a reference on the 700 mile figure, see Thork's post, he cited his source.  All the material he cites is available in the site's library. 

We welcome round-earthers, but let's keep things civil and open-minded, shall we? :)

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Wolf

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2012, 09:17:44 AM »
Tintagel, please.


So that's what it is.


There is no maths or science behind the firmament. None whatsoever. Why are all the claims made by "REers" always accompanied by scientific experiments and mathematical calculations, but on not one single post have I seen a FEer post some maths or scientific experiments as proof of what they claim? This is a scientific topic by nature.
lol - they actually believe the earth is flat!

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Tintagel

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2012, 09:33:36 AM »
Tintagel, please.
There is no maths or science behind the firmament. None whatsoever.

So speculation isn't allowed in a thread that is, by its own title, specifically for speculation?  There are other threads for debating maths and science.  This isn't one of them.

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Pongo

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2012, 11:42:24 AM »
But thanks for the speculation this is all we got from pongo:

I'd prefer not to speculate. So much is still unknown.

:P

Would you rather I just make things up to answer questions I'm unsure of? I know you've come to expect things like this in your life, but I'm not a round-earther.

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sandokhan

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Re: Firmament speculation
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2012, 02:52:01 AM »
My view: flat earth, disk shaped planets/stars, sun-earth distance some 12-15 km, diameter of the sun 600 meters, no attractive gravity, piri reis inspired map of the FE world, existence of both aether and ether, new radical chronology.

The sun is 12-15km away ??  You get crazier by the day Mate.

I drove to my parents house 500km North a few weeks ago.  Did the sun follow me up the M1 ?

Your lack of research and imagination is responsible for the poor quality of your messages.

Please search this topic in my messages: not only the videos, and the photographs in Antarctica but also the explanation offerred; do some homework before you post.