RET phantom islands

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Thork

RET phantom islands
« on: November 22, 2012, 03:46:27 AM »
Round earthers like to argue long and vociferously about the accuracy of flat earth maps in the southern hemisphere.

"We have google earth, we can see what it looks like", "All world maps are like that. You must be wrong."

And flat earthers reply with "Have you actually checked this for yourself?". Eyes roll, "Why would we need to do that?" "Here's a satellite image" "Is Google Earth faked?"

Below is the curious case of someone trying to use round earth maps to locate an Island in the South Pacific. The island is visible on Google earth below.


Well it turns out, some scientists went to check out that island.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20442487

Here are some choice quotes

Quote from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20442487
A South Pacific island, shown on marine charts and world maps as well as on Google Earth, does not exist, Australian scientists say.

Quote from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20442487
The supposedly sizeable strip of land, named Sandy Island on Google maps, was positioned midway between Australia and French-governed New Caledonia.

But when scientists from the University of Sydney went to the area, they found only the blue ocean of the Coral Sea.
Oh. So navigating with round earth maps isn't flawless. The earth isn't as google suggests?

Quote from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20442487
The phantom island has featured in publications for at least a decade.

Scientist Maria Seton, who was on the ship, said that the team was expecting land, not 1,400m (4,620ft) of deep ocean.
So its not like a small rise in sea level covered a small island. The Ocean is 4,620ft deep there! Almost a mile down.

The civilian scientists said
Quote from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20442487
"It's on Google Earth and other maps so we went to check and there was no island. We're really puzzled. It's quite bizarre."

"How did it find its way onto the maps? We just don't know, but we plan to follow up and find out."

And finally
Quote from: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20442487
Australia's Hydrographic Service, which produces the country's nautical charts, says its appearance on some scientific maps and Google Earth could just be the result of human error, repeated down the years.
A satellite image of something added that doesn't really exist is human error? It seems the conspiracy has been fixing its maps so as its southern hemisphere model works. Even adding bits where necessary.  Lord only knows where that island really is if it exists at all, but a satellite did not take photos of it. Google earth, marine charts and world maps have all been doctored to fit the conspiracy model.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 07:27:38 AM by Thork »

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2012, 04:10:09 AM »
Still more accurate than the FET map.

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Thork

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2012, 04:13:30 AM »
Thank you for your low content contribution.


Please explain how inventing an island makes your maps more accurate than ours. Saying its there when it isn't, is as inaccurate as you could be. A binary 1 instead of a 0.

Here is the island on regular round earth map.

Source:
Check the source for that map. There's a great video of the scientist explaining.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 04:37:14 AM by Thork »

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2012, 04:25:25 AM »
Ye I really have nothing much to contribute to this thread, I let myself stoop down to FET level by offering no answer to any of the points, diverting the topic and still in the end offering zero explanation to anything


My apologies.

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Thork

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2012, 04:27:40 AM »
Please take 3 mins to watch the video at this link. It seems the fantasy island's existence has been traced back and the civilian scientists think the CIA invented it.
http://www.watoday.com.au/technology/technology-news/where-did-it-go-scientists-undiscover-pacific-island-20121122-29ro4.html

This gets more and more juicy.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 04:46:48 AM by Thork »

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2012, 06:06:21 AM »
Upon further reading on the island the island was only marked on maps since around 2000... And to clear up for people reading the forum as I had a similar misconception of the image, the island been spoken about is not the large green island, but rather the black blip (for lack of a better term) by the left hand side... Neither the French maps, nor the nautical charts used by ships has this island marked.

"Nabil Naghdy, the product manager of Google Maps for Australia and New Zealand, said Google Earth consulted a variety of authoritative public and commercial data sources in building its maps." Implying sources come from all over, the error not necessarily being from a satellite.

I also would like to know where you got the source about the CIA? Was it in the video? I was unable to watch with audio, but didn't see any mention of CIA in the article.

If it can be drawn back to the CIA, how does that bare link to the fact the earth is flat? Perhaps they made an error, or perhaps they have other reasons...

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Thork

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2012, 06:18:10 AM »
Yes, the CIA link is from the scientist's explanation on the video.

You can watch the same video here. Hopefully you won't have audio problems. The mention that its a CIA fabrication comes about at around 2:00 mins in. As its today's story in the news (I like topical threads - beats arguing about stars or Coriolis for the 200th time) it means the video is not yet on youtube or similar. That second video source I just linked is from where it has been syndicated to all the other news websites.

I'm hoping more details of this mystery reveal themselves over the next 24 hours. Its always nice to catch the conspiracy as events unfold before they can cover things up.

I'd love to ask this guy a few questions. Maybe Daniel could Skype him for a few minutes in a podcast?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 06:53:31 AM by Thork »

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Lorddave

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Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2012, 06:20:35 AM »
Could it be possible these black spots (or perhaps they were all painted blue) exist everywhere on the maps to account for spacial inconsistencies between a round and flat map?

After all, if the map of the Flat Earth is taken then converted to a map for a Round Earth, there would be a lot of stretching and distorting to make everything fit. By putting in random "space" on the maps, they can keep the proportions visibly accurate for a round earth map.

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2012, 06:40:25 AM »
Will watch video when away from work... With regards to Lorddaves comment, wouldn't there have to be a lot more of these space's than one? Perhaps if there more than one spot found...

Perhaps the spot is covering something, but think if it were something as a big as FET they would be exceptionally careful. Also think that if they were tryna fill spaces they would do it to seem like ocean, not land...

Is odd and interesting, something to keep on

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spoon

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Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2012, 07:19:46 AM »
it is very interesting, but i wouldn't jump to "conspiracy" right away. I would first think "mistake", and from there, play it by ear.

Thork, 1400 meters is actually less than 1609 meters.
I work nights are get the feeling of impennding doom for things most people take for granted.

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2012, 07:43:20 AM »
You seem to make a lot of emphasis on "round earth maps" having accuracy problems. When we talk (at least when i do) about round earth accuracy we refer about distances and size of continent and oceans and things like it being easier to travel from Australia to chile going near the south pole, rather than going north traveling near asia, north america and most of south america, things so obvious you could never talk about a human mistake or some miscalculation hard to notice.
But this topic is about an island found in maps while not existing, you can't compare a black spot appearing on google earth and some maps, not being an island, with the flat earth distances inaccuracy.
Now, the crew said "We wanted to check it out because the navigation charts on board the ship showed a water depth of 1,400m in that area - very deep," were they using charts provided by the flat earth society?

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Thork

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2012, 07:47:27 AM »
If the maps aren't accurate and are altered by the CIA, they aren't a valid proof of earth's shape (the premise of many many threads decrying flat earth as false on this site). Its easy to spot a missing island. What if they omit millions of miles of ocean to make the earth seem globular? How easy is it to spot missing or added water?
Round earthers claim google earth and other maps prove our theory wrong, every single week. Well in this thread I'm showing yet another example of why you shouldn't take everything google says as gospel. They make things up and the conspiracy influences the data you get given.
When we ask, have you actually flown that flight or seen that island for yourself, now you know why. A map or satellite image isn't worth squat as evidence.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 07:50:20 AM by Thork »

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2012, 08:09:21 AM »
If the maps aren't accurate and are altered by the CIA, they aren't a valid proof of earth's shape (the premise of many many threads decrying flat earth as false on this site). Its easy to spot a missing island. What if they omit millions of miles of ocean to make the earth seem globular? How easy is it to spot missing water?
Round earthers claim google earth and other maps prove our theory wrong, every single week. Well in this thread I'm showing yet another example of why you shouldn't take everything google says as gospel. They make things up and the conspiracy influences the data you get given.
When we ask, have you actually flown that flight or seen that island for yourself, now you know why. A map or satellite image isn't worth squat as evidence.

How easy is it to spot missing water? what about asking how easy is it to spot hundreds or thousands of missing miles in routes people travel through every day?
What about we asking you if you have ever seen the ice wall? have you ever traveled round the south pole to confirm it is larger than the north? This is when you roll your eyes.
Look, a black dot on google earth is not an island and it is news, what about a guy traveling trough the south pole discovering he was actually surrounding the whole earth? or any other incoherency you would find with the maps made based on a globe if the earth was flat? Nope, an extra island on some maps is all what you need, a round earth should not be believably anymore.

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markjo

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Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2012, 08:59:07 AM »
I wonder if the "island" might be some left over dis-information from WWII.  Perhaps the OSS (predecessor to the CIA) invented this island as a strategic naval base to confuse the Japanese who could have been working their way invading Australia.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2012, 09:00:16 AM »
Please refer to Willmores map of the Earth. That island does not exist there.

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Thork

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2012, 09:05:59 AM »
I wonder if the "island" might be some left over dis-information from WWII.  Perhaps the OSS (predecessor to the CIA) invented this island as a strategic naval base to confuse the Japanese who could have been working their way invading Australia.
As the article said, the island seems to have been fabricated by the CIA rather recently. In fact in time to fill in the glaring holes with satellite mosaics.

Quote from: http://www.watoday.com.au/technology/technology-news/where-did-it-go-scientists-undiscover-pacific-island-20121122-29ro4.html
The missing island has regularly appeared in scientific publications since at least 2000.

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2012, 09:10:21 AM »
If anything, this actually proves that the earth is round, you can't even lie the people about a nonexistent island on some maps for more than ten years, what about lying to the whole world about the shape of the earth and the position of the continents for hundreds of years? That is far more obvious.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 09:13:09 AM by robertotrevor »

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Thork

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2012, 09:13:18 AM »
Again, spotting an erroneous island is easy. How do you spot erroneous sea? The maps are clearly fabricated around the model and have CIA intervention.

this actually proves that the earth is round
You have a dreadful case of confirmation bias.

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2012, 09:24:04 AM »
Again, spotting an erroneous island is easy. How do you spot erroneous sea? The maps are clearly fabricated around the model and have CIA intervention.

this actually proves that the earth is round
You have a dreadful case of confirmation bias.

Good job taking a phrase out of context.

Again, is not about spotting the sea, is about hundreds or thousands of miles extra or missing (depending on the location) in travel routes people use every day, Is about Antarctica not being at all the shape or size everybody think it is, and how every single map shows it, not for ten years, but for hundreds.
That island was undiscovered by some guys sailing there. This is about continents not being in the position where they are supposed to be.

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Pongo

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Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2012, 09:49:24 AM »
This is a very exciting discovery, Thork. I wonder how they will try to cover it up. My guess is that they let Google take the fall for this one.

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Thork

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2012, 09:55:45 AM »
Sure as eggs is eggs, the blame won't be allowed to rest at the CIAs door.

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2012, 12:22:12 PM »
Wait, some scientists discovered a (maybe intentional) mistake on a map and this means the earth is flat?

Am I missing something in this train of thought? 

If scientists came back from their mission saying "We've found a mistake with our entire perception of reality, and the world is flat", then you might have a headline.
Fine, I'll spell it out to you. All stones (that are in moving water) eventually become flat due to erosion. If the earth were round, one would expect that the stones would show some curvature due to the curvature of the way the water would have to flow over a round

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Lord Wilmore

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Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2012, 12:41:55 PM »
Wait, some scientists discovered a (maybe intentional) mistake on a map and this means the earth is flat?

Am I missing something in this train of thought?


You're not missing anything. Rather, you're in possession of an argument that no-one here is making. Neither Thork nor anyone else is suggesting that because RE maps are wrong, the Earth must be flat. What we are suggesting is that these kind of ludicrous errors are precisely why the existence of Google Maps (or whatever) is terrible 'evidence' in favour of a Round Earth.
"I want truth for truth's sake, not for the applaud or approval of men. I would not reject truth because it is unpopular, nor accept error because it is popular. I should rather be right and stand alone than run with the multitude and be wrong." - C.S. DeFord

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Tom Bishop

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Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2012, 12:51:09 PM »
The absurdity of holding up a flat map as evidence of a round earth is discrediting enough.

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2012, 01:33:01 PM »
The absurdity of holding up a flat map as evidence of a round earth is discrediting enough.

The reason they are flat is because they are more practical to see and carry around, and the only way if you want to see "the whole world" in one look. On the other hand, according to you, the earth is flat, your maps are flat, yet there is no way to get an accurate representation of the earth, not that you add one island by mistake, you completely distort all the proportions that in a globe match distances proven to be true, but apparently that is harder to notice than a small island nobody cares about.

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Mizuki

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"Earth is a maximal sphere in a cyclical space and its surface therefore a total plane, the equator plane of the Cosmos. The (total) plane, as well as the straight line and space as a whole, is flat, without curvature yet closed, running back on itself."

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squevil

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Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2012, 10:51:20 PM »
If anything, this actually proves that the earth is round, you can't even lie the people about a nonexistent island on some maps for more than ten years, what about lying to the whole world about the shape of the earth and the position of the continents for hundreds of years? That is far more obvious.

fair point

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2012, 02:45:17 AM »
If anything, this actually proves that the earth is round, you can't even lie the people about a nonexistent island on some maps for more than ten years, what about lying to the whole world about the shape of the earth and the position of the continents for hundreds of years? That is far more obvious.

fair point

Great point!

It amazes me that FE'ers think the entire world could be fooled into believing something as fundamental to our existence as the shape of the planet is in fact a conspiracy controlled by a few hundred NASA scientists.

I cannot wait to see how FE'ers respond to your point.

So, how do they keep the globe conspiracy going when a false,insignificant, tiny island is noticed so quickly?

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2012, 05:08:39 AM »
How else? ignoring it of course. According to thork, realizing the continents shape, position and size is different than what the maps show, and that the distances between them can vary up to some thousands of miles from what maps imply, would be way too hard, because you would need to spot erroneous sea.

Re: RET phantom islands
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2012, 05:36:20 AM »
How else? ignoring it of course. According to thork, realizing the continents shape, position and size is different than what the maps show, and that the distances between them can vary up to some thousands of miles from what maps imply, would be way too hard, because you would need to spot erroneous sea.

Has anyone else noticed a gradual decrease in the quantity & quality of the FE response lately?
Is this a sign that they are realising the folly of their ways?

The most prolific user now seems to be Sceptimatic who isn't even an FE'er but is more of a conspiracist crackpot denialist.

We might actually be starting to get through to these people.
I knew they weren't a lost cause!