FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic

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Offline RW

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Oh wow - you have to check this FE thread out.

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,30499.0.html



he says
"The Pompeian fresco, the Three Graces resemble perfectly Raphael's Three Graces, and later paintings (del Cossa, Rubens). Raphael did not have a time machine available to take him to the year 78 AD, therefore the logical conclusion is that the actual eruption took place either in the XVI century (the conventional chronology) or even in the late 18th century (radical revised new chronology)."

"The destruction of Pompeii by the eruption of Vesuvius actually happened in the 18th century, and not in the year 79 AD. I fully believe that the actual duration of our world history is not more than 500 years old (100 years for the antediluvian period, and 400 years for our history);"

What logic ! He sees two similar paintings, that could not be reconciled in the conventional time line, so he loses thousands of years of history.

Shame he didn't think that both paintings might actually have been influenced by an earlier, common source - Greece

eg. this well known Greek sculpture, as well as many others in Greece, where they were known as  the Three Graces, THE KHARITES (Charites) or Graces,
   

http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/S21.1.html

or

http://www.ancientsculpturegallery.com/5067.html


This site is soooo precious - where else could you get such a warped view of whatever reality is, every high school student ought to be made to review the posts, to appreciate the importance of rational thinking.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 09:24:04 PM by RW »
RW


By denying scientific principles, one may maintain any paradox. - Galileo Galilei

Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 07:26:25 PM »
reported for obscenity

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Offline RW

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Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2012, 09:19:07 PM »
reported for obscenity

What a classic - the other two images, even more 'nude', are allowed in the 'members' area, but the picture of a sculpture, showing the 'missing link'. has to be removed.

I think this is a conspiracy Mr Moderator.

RW


By denying scientific principles, one may maintain any paradox. - Galileo Galilei

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Offline Pongo

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Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2012, 10:14:32 PM »
Both of you are off topic. iwanttobelieve did not report your topic, RW. I think he was trying to make a joke. iwant, this is not the forum for that. It's low content and off topic. RW, if you have a problem with the lines between art and pornography, or simply can't handle either, make a thread about it Suggestions and Concerns. We know what's in Levee's threads, no need to report them. 

Now, lets get this back on the topic of questioning Levee's research before I have to toss this one into CN.

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Offline RW

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Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2012, 11:00:57 PM »
Both of you are off topic. iwanttobelieve did not report your topic, RW. I think he was trying to make a joke. iwant, this is not the forum for that. It's low content and off topic. RW, if you have a problem with the lines between art and pornography, or simply can't handle either, make a thread about it Suggestions and Concerns. We know what's in Levee's threads, no need to report them. 

Now, lets get this back on the topic of questioning Levee's research before I have to toss this one into CN.

Apologies to joking Iwant. OK, I have taken your advice and started a  thread in S&A. I will be interested how the picture of the sculpture was inappropriate.
RW


By denying scientific principles, one may maintain any paradox. - Galileo Galilei

Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2012, 12:51:08 AM »
This topic is very important and should be left for debate right here.

rw, your interest in the new radical chronology is most welcome.






Abbildung 11: Italienische oder pompejanische Renaissance:
Tizian: Liegende Kurtisane (oben) und liegende Mänade aus
Pompeji (unten)
Abbildung der Mänade aus: Pietro Giovanni Guzzo: Pompei, Ercolano, Stabiae, Oplontis;
Napoli 2003, 75

Figure 11: Italian Renaissance and Pompeian:
Titian: Horizontal courtesan (top) and from lying maenad
Pompeii (below)
Figure out the maenad: Pietro Giovanni Guzzo: Pompei, Ercolano, Stabia, Oplontis;
Napoli 2003, 75

The well-known painting by Titian copied perfectly at Pompeii...


As for the Three Graces, the Raphael painting is a PERFECT COPY of the Pompeii fresco, you have omitted this most important detail.


ORIGINAL THEATRUM ORBIS, NEAPOLETANUM REGNUM MAP BY ABRAHAM ORTELIUS:

http://www.bergbook.com/images/22775-01.jpg


THE CITY OF POMPEII IN FULL VIEW IN THE YEAR 1570 AD:









HELMETS WITH MOBILE VISOR AT POMPEII (INVENTED DURING THE XIVth CENTURY):






EACH ARTEFACT DISCOVERED AT POMPEII AND HERCULANEUM BELONGS TO THE RENAISSANCE:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ilya.it%2Fchrono%2Fpages%2Fpompejidt.htm&sl=de&tl=en



GLASS ROLLING INVENTED AT ST. GOBAIN IN 1688 AD:


http://www.vetrotech.com/us/eng/SAINT__1580.asp

The first historical records of the glass rolling process in Saint Gobain date back to 1688.

This process involves pouring molten glass onto the rolling table, spreading it out and rolling it. It produces flat glass of an even thickness. Another advantage is that this process enables the production of glass sheets with the dimensions of 40 x 60 inches, which is ideal for mirror making.




Translation from German to English:

In the window of the museum you can see many products made of glass, including bottles, bottles for perfumes, a lot of colored glass with different shades. Particularly noteworthy are absolutely transparent thin-walled glass vases. The same glass vases are also presented on Pompeian frescoes.

Therefore, it should be noted that the first transparent glass from the mid-15th Century in Venice and is produced on the island of glassblowers of Murano, Angelo Barovir. His secret has been kept strictly secret for a long time thereafter before the competitors.

In Herculaneum, the window glasses were allegedly even a standard size of 45x44 cm and found 80х80 сm (Fig. 15.16). About the way the production of flat glass is not known. In Europe, the first window glass of murky, were called "crown glass" for the stained glass windows around 1330 in the north-west of France, produced in the spinning process. Louis Lucas de Memorial Center, lodge manager at Saint-Gobain has developed from 1688 a new process for the manufacture of flat glass. In this so-called Tischwalzverfahren the molten glass is poured onto flat Gie?tischen, then smoothly rolled with heavy rollers, and finally polished with sand. Previously, flat glass has been obtained mostly by heating, cutting and flat rolling of cylindrical glass.

The window glass from Herculaneum fact is cloudy. The turbidity is probably caused by the effect of the high temperature of the pyroclastic tower. The thickness of the window glass is absolutely evenly! As if it had come from the table, rolls of Saint-Gobain.



FLAT GLASS PRODUCED FOR THE FIRST TIME AT ST. GOBAIN:

http://books.google.ro/books?id=apWvKnKKrvsC&pg=PA45&lpg=PA45&dq=saint+gobain+glass+rolling+first+1688&source=bl&ots=08Pp0W5iXK&sig=k988d0f1jJ7LIQdt-NI20ilEzV8&hl=ro&ei=kcgzTqOuHYeLswaW2dm6Ag&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false


Handbook of Glass in construction


Clear, absolute proofs that Pompeii was destroyed at least after 1700 AD. by the eruption of the volcano Vesuvius.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 12:59:36 AM by levee »
[-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU77oWSoC-g]

Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2012, 12:57:40 AM »
Dating the Council of Nicaea:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,52083.0.html#.UKtFouQp9kY

Here is a summary...

The Council of Nicaea could not have taken place before the year 876-877 AD:

Despite the fact that no original Easter edicts of the Nicaean council remain, it is said that the Council issued its edicts in the alleged year 325 AD, when the the actual methods of calculating the Easter dates had already been well developed, and the Easter date table that had been used for centuries had been compiled. The latter is quite natural, since every 532 years, the Christian Easter cycle repeats from the very start the Paschalian tables for each year of 532 were in existence.



THE NICAEAN COUNCIL OF 325 AD CONTRADICTS THE PASCHALIA

There is a traditional consensual opinion according to which the Paschalia church calendar was canonized during the first Ecumenical Council in Nicaea. Nobody seem to be aware, however, that all of this blatantly contradicts Scaliger's dating of the Nicaean council 325 AD, and the epoch of the IV century AD in general.

The matter here is that the Paschalia consists of a number of calendarian and astronomical tables. The time of their compilation can be calculated from their contents qv below. In other words, the Paschalia can be dated by its astronomical contents. We see that the resulting dating of the Paschalia contradicts the dating of the Nicaean Council as the IV century AD.

The contradiction had been discovered a long time ago, and it was mentioned in the beginning of the XX century by Easter table specialists. However, to this day, there has been no comprehensive explanation of this phenomenon given.

Let us turn to the canonical mediaeval ecclesial tractate - Matthew Vlastar's Collection of Rules Devised by Holy Fathers, or The Alphabet Syntagma. This rather voluminous book represents the rendition of the rules formulated by the Ecclesial and local Councils of the Orthodox Church.

Matthew Vlastar is considered to have been a Holy Hierarch from Thessalonica, and written his tractate in the XIV century. Today's copies are of a much later date, of course. A large part of Vlastar?s Collection of Rules Devised by Holy Fathers contains the rules for celebrating Easter. Among other things, it says the following:

The Easter Rules makes the two following restrictions: it should not be celebrated together with the Judaists, and it can only be celebrated after the spring equinox. Two more had to be added later, namely: celebrate after the first full moon after the equinox, but not any day it should be celebrated on the first Sunday after the equinox. All of these restrictions, except for the last one, are still valid (in times of Matthew Vlastar  the XIV century  Auth.), although nowadays we often celebrate on the Sunday that comes later. Namely, we always count two days after the Lawful Easter (that is, the Passover, or the full moon Auth.) and end up with the subsequent Sunday. This didn't happen out of ignorance or lack of skill on the part of the Elders, but due to lunar motion.

Let us emphasize that the quoted Collection of Rules Devised by Holy Fathers is a canonical mediaeval clerical volume, which gives it all the more authority, since we know that up until the XVII century, the Orthodox Church was very meticulous about the immutability of canonical literature and kept the texts exactly the way they were; with any alteration a complicated and widely discussed issue that would not have passed unnoticed.

This means that we can hope for Matthew Vlastar's text to give us a precise enough account of the opinions held by the Constantinople scientists of the XIV century, in regard to the Easter issue. As we can see, Matthew Vlastar tells us the following:

In addition to the two Apostolic Easter rules, namely:

1) Not celebrating Easter together with the Judaists.

2) Only celebrating Easter after the spring equinox.

The Elders of the Council that introduced the Paschalia added two more rules for certainty, since the previous two do not define Easter day explicitly enough:

3) Only celebrating Easter after the first full moon in a given spring. That is, after the Passover that is often called Lawful Easter in Christian clerical literature that is, Easter celebrated in accordance with the Law of Moses or, alternatively, that of the 14th Moon.

4) Easter cannot be celebrated on any weekday; the celebration is to occur on the first Sunday following this full moon, or the Passover.


THE FOURTH RULE BROKEN

The first three rules of four were still quite valid in the XIV century, according to Vlastar, whereas the 4th rule of Easter Sunday being the first Sunday after the full moon was already broken.

Furthermore, Matthew Vlastar gives a perfectly valid astronomical explanation of why the rule was broken. The reason is that the Circle for Moon (Methon's Cycle) isn?t completely precise. There is a very slow shift of real full moon dates in relation to the ones stated by the Circle for Moon that the Elders of the Council may have been unaware of. However, in the age of Matthew Vlastar, knowledge of the shift already existed. Vlastar was aware of it and gave its correct value about 24 hours in 300 years.

This is why no less than two days should pass between the full moon and Easter (according to Vlastar, and applicable to his age). The matter is that the calculations of the Christian Easter are based on the calendar with its Circle for Moon values, as opposed to real full moon dates given by astronomy.

When, over the passage of time, a two-day discrepancy between the Paschalian Circle for Moon and the real full moon schedule had evolved, this could not fail to impact the distance between the astronomical spring equinox and Easter Sunday. If the previous distance equalled zero or more (so that Easter could not come before the full moon), it became equalling two or moreso that the Easter could not come earlier than two days after the full moon.

However, most often the amount of days separating the full moon and Easter Sunday, exceeded two, anyway, since the rules have it so that one had to wait for the Easter's advent from the vernal full moon and until the closest Sunday, that is, about three days (half a week) in average, and more than two days in most cases.

So the two-day gap that had accumulated by the age of Vlastar did not always manifest, and no rules were broken in the years when several days had to pass between the full moon and Easter.

However, in certain years, when the distance proved less than two days, the 4th Easter rule was broken, namely, Easter Sunday fell on the second Sunday after the vernal full moon. For example, if the Passover falls on a Saturday, Easter has to be celebrated the next day, on Sunday.


Thus, we know a lot, almost everything, about the Paschalia. So, why the astronomical context of the Paschalia contradicts Scaliger's dating (alleged 325 AD) of the Nicaean Council where the Paschalia was canonized?

This contradiction can easily be seen from the roughest of calculations.

1) The difference between the Paschalian full moons and the real ones grows at the rate of one day in 300 years.

2) A two-day difference had accumulated by the time of Vlastar, which is roughly dated 1330 AD.

3) Ergo, the Paschalia was compiled somewhere around 730 AD, since

1330 - (300 x 2) = 730.

It is understood that the Paschalia could only be canonized by the Council sometime later. But this fails to correspond to Scaliger's dating of its canonization as 325 AD in any way at all!

Let us emphasize, that Matthew Vlastar himself, doesn't see any contradiction here, since he is apparently unaware of the Nicaean Council's dating as the alleged year 325 AD. A natural hypothesis: this traditional dating was introduced much later than Vlastar's age. Most probably, it was first calculated in Scaliger's time.


The conclusion we came to:

FIRST STATEMENT:

The Council that introduced the Paschalia according to the modern tradition as well as the mediaeval one, was the Nicaean Council  could not have taken place before 784 AD, since this was the first year when the calendar date for the Christian Easter stopped coinciding with the Passover full moon due to slow astronomical shifts of lunar phases.

The last such coincidence occurred in 784 AD, and after that year, the dates of Easter and Passover drifted apart forever. This means the Nicaean Council could not have possibly canonized the Paschalia in IV AD, when the calendar Easter Sunday would coincide with the Passover eight (!) times ? in 316, 319, 323, 343, 347, 367, 374, and 394 AD, and would even precede it by two days five (!) times, which is directly forbidden by the fourth Easter rule, that is, in 306 and 326 (allegedly already a year after the Nicaean Council), as well as the years 346, 350, and 370.

Thus, if we're to follow the consensual chronological version, we'll have to consider the first Easter celebrations after the Nicaean Council to blatantly contradict three of the four rules that the Council decreed specifically for this feast! The rules allegedly become broken the very next year after the Council decrees them, yet start to be followed zealously and in full detail five centuries (!) after that.

Let us note that J.J. Scaliger could not have noticed this obvious nonsense during his compilation of the consensual ancient chronology, since computing true full moon dates for the distant past had not been a solved problem in his epoch.

A satisfactory coincidence of calendarian Passover full moons with the astronomical ones had only existed between 700 AD and 1000 AD (by which we mean their occurrence within the range of 24 hours from each other). Prior to that, the calendarian full moons have always taken place after the Passover ones, and after 1000 AD, the opposite started to happen. The beginning of the 13th Great Indiction (877 AD) falls on the period of ideal coincidence of Passover and astronomical full moons.

This means the Paschalia could only have been compiled in the period between the IX and XI centuries AD.

Propter hoc, the dating of the Nicaean Council (as the Council that had introduced the Paschalia) is only possible, within the timeframe of the VII-XI centuries, the most probable one being the epoch of the X-XI centuries, after the year 877 AD.

SUMMING UP THE DATINGS OF THE NICAEAN COUNCIL

The Paschalia could have been compiled in the following timeframe:

- not any earlier than 784 AD by the actual definition of Easter;
- not any earlier than 700 AD by the coincidence of Paschalian and astronomical full moons;
- not any earlier than 700 AD by the Palm of Damascenus;
- not any earlier than 743 AD according to Matthew Vlastar;

Hence, the Paschalia was first compiled earliest around the second half of the VIII century AD. The Paschalia was canonized at the Nicaean Council that took place in the XI-XIV centuries. The Paschalia might well have contained certain astronomical concepts of the VII-XI centuries that had already been a part of the ecclesial tradition by that time.



The greatest of all British historians, Edwin Johnson, demonstrates how the official history of England has been falsified at least after 1530 AD; how the four Gospels and the Pauline epistles were written during the Renaissance:

http://www.egodeath.com/edwinjohnsonpaulineepistles.htm



History: Fiction or Science? volume III: Almagest was written during the Renaissance, N. Copernic and his works invented at least 100 years later in time.

http://new-chrono-book.livejournal.com/2125.html
[-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU77oWSoC-g]

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Offline Lorddave

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Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2012, 02:55:53 AM »
What does any of this have to do with the shape of the Earth?

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Offline RW

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Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2012, 01:35:48 PM »
What does any of this have to do with the shape of the Earth?

It has to do with either
1) the humourous Trolling of the weirdest ideas

or

2) Some serious logic impairment on the part of many of the participants on this forum. The same impairment that insists on the earth being flat besides all the evidence to the contrary.


FRESCO QUESTION

(You can forget about snowing the issue with tons of other stuff - its a  common but very crude blustering technique)

"As for the Three Graces, the Raphael painting is a PERFECT COPY of the Pompeii fresco, you have omitted this most important detail."


No, its not PERFECT at all. If I was allowed to display  the sculptures (links below), you would see its actually closer to  that. Greek sculpture has been a constant inspiration  to artists of all the ages, and copies circulate prolifically. Rapheals painting is much, much closer to the Greek sculpture in body line (balance and angle of hips) , but since I am not allowed to display it, it isn't that obvious at first glance. The fact that I can produce two examples show what a common motif it was. Notice also, that the Pompiie fresco has the feet of the women separated, like they are in the sculptures. This was a practical necessity in stone carving of course, indicating that the fresco was inspired by sculpture. Raphaels painting has the womens feet internixed - so much for your 'perfect copy'


re,  the Titian painting, no doubt the reclining nude is a classical Greek or Roman theme as well, certainly nude reclining women are a common theme.

Your 'conclusions' of warped history based on such incredible and fatuous reasoning (or very creative troll humor as I suspect ) are a bit transparent to the amateur art historian.

I have no interest in your 'alternative history' mess, just pointing out one obvious big logic hole. Have fun.  :)



http://www.ancientsculpturegallery.com/5067.html

http://www.theoi.com/Gallery/S21.1.html

S21.1 KHARITES

Museum Collection: Musée du Louvre, Paris, France
Catalogue Number: Louvre
Ma 287
Title: "Les Trois Grâces"
Class: Free-standing statue
Material: Marble
Height: 1.19 metres
Context: Found in the Villa Cornovaglia in Rome
Original / Copy: Roman copy of Greek statue C2nd BC. Rennaisance era restoration by Nicolas Cordier (1609)
Style: Hellenistic
Date: C2nd AD
Period: Imperial Roman

SUMMARY

The three Kharites (Graces) dancing in a circle.


RW


By denying scientific principles, one may maintain any paradox. - Galileo Galilei

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Offline Beorn

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Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2012, 01:42:27 PM »
2) Some serious logic impairment on the part of many of the participants on this forum. The same impairment that insists on the earth being flat besides all the evidence to the contrary.

If I was allowed to display  the sculptures

Do you have some kind of reading impairment? It was made pretty clear in the S&C thread you started that you're allowed to display the sculptures but that they were removed from imageshack (and that you didn't figure that out for yourself says a lot about your mental capabilities).

Yup.  Once you've had Dutch you never go.... non-Dutch.

Quote
Only one thing can save our future. Give Thork a BanHammer for Th*rksakes!

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Offline RW

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Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2012, 02:27:16 PM »
2) Some serious logic impairment on the part of many of the participants on this forum. The same impairment that insists on the earth being flat besides all the evidence to the contrary.

If I was allowed to display  the sculptures

Do you have some kind of reading impairment? It was made pretty clear in the S&C thread you started that you're allowed to display the sculptures but that they were removed from imageshack (and that you didn't figure that out for yourself says a lot about your mental capabilities).

As it turned out, I hadn't got as far as the S&C responses.

I am glad that you were able to enlighten me in such a friendly and helpful way.

Thats the problem with being a professional troll - you get so bitter and sarcastic. hows  the wife  these days ?   ;)
RW


By denying scientific principles, one may maintain any paradox. - Galileo Galilei

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Offline Beorn

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Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2012, 02:29:31 PM »
2) Some serious logic impairment on the part of many of the participants on this forum. The same impairment that insists on the earth being flat besides all the evidence to the contrary.

If I was allowed to display  the sculptures

Do you have some kind of reading impairment? It was made pretty clear in the S&C thread you started that you're allowed to display the sculptures but that they were removed from imageshack (and that you didn't figure that out for yourself says a lot about your mental capabilities).

As it turned out, I hadn't got as far as the S&C responses.

I am glad that you were able to enlighten me in such a friendly and helpful way.

Thats the problem with being a professional troll - you get so bitter and sarcastic.

I have a very strict "treat others the way they treat you" policy.
Yup.  Once you've had Dutch you never go.... non-Dutch.

Quote
Only one thing can save our future. Give Thork a BanHammer for Th*rksakes!

Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2012, 12:24:02 AM »
The only amateurish approach can be found in your previous messages.

Here is the complete demonstration that the Parthenon was built during the Renaissance:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,30499.msg1279407.html#msg1279407


The Great Wall of China built after 1900 AD:

http://www.ihaal.com/articles/A%20chronological%20revolution%20made%20by%20historical%20analytics.pdf


No such thing as ancient Rome or Greece:

http://www.revisedhistory.org/Book%20of%20Civilization.pdf


HISTORY: FICTION OR SCIENCE, volume 1:

http://books.google.ro/books?id=YcjFAV4WZ9MC&printsec=frontcover&dq=history+science+or+fiction&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=xI6sUO6eC-Gr0AXymYHYAQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=history%20science%20or%20fiction&f=false


HISTORY: FICTION OR SCIENCE, volume 2:

http://books.google.ro/books?id=fSvlaZYbcwUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=history+science+or+fiction&hl=ro&sa=X&ei=xI6sUO6eC-Gr0AXymYHYAQ&redir_esc=y


The maps signed Ortelius demonstrate clearly (even for you) that Pompeii was a city in full activity in 1570 AD.

The helmets with mobile visors prove just as clearly that Pompeii was built at least after 1400 AD.

The dating of the council of Nicaea is just as precise: it could not have taken place before the year 876-877 AD.


No other comments are needed.
[-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU77oWSoC-g]

Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2012, 09:40:35 AM »
No other comments are needed.

since any comment would prove you wrong

Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2012, 12:08:37 AM »
You still do not understand, do you?

There is no way the Council of Nicaea could have taken place before the year 876-877 AD based on the most precise astronomical proofs; this dating is crucial for the official chronology, as you might know, please read the message posted earlier.


A confirmation of all of the above here:

(also parts 2-13)
[-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU77oWSoC-g]

Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2012, 01:35:58 AM »
no mention of the council of nicae whatsoever in the link you provided, of the great wall, of ancient grece or rome.

we need proofs, not a link to a video you have probably not watched

Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2012, 03:37:24 AM »
The documentary is based on I. Finkelstein's book, Bible Unearthed:

http://books.google.ro/books?id=lu6ywyJr0CMC&printsec=frontcover&dq=israel+finkelstein&hl=en&sa=X&ei=O1uvUKGqMuXx4QTxwIHgAw&redir_esc=y

His extraordinary book does prove the following:


Bible Unearthed (Finkelstein/Silberman)

The Bible Unearthed begins by considering what it terms the 'preamble' of the bible, the Book of Genesis, and its relationship to archaeological evidence for the context in which its narratives are set. Archaeological discoveries about society and culture in the ancient near east lead the authors to point out a number of anachronisms, suggestive that the narratives were actually set down in the 9th-7th centuries:


   * Aramaeans are frequently mentioned, but no ancient text mentions them until around 1100BCE, and they only begin to dominate Israel's northern borders after the 9th century BCE.

    * The text describes the early origin of the neighbouring kingdom of Edom, but Assyrian records show that Edom only came into existence after the conquest of the region by Assyria; before then it was without functioning kings, wasn't a distinct state, and archaeological evidence shows that the territory was only sparsely populated.

    * The Joseph story refers to camel-based traders carrying gum, balm, and myrrh, an unlikely event for the first millennium, but quite common in the 8th-7th centuries BCE, when Assyrian hegemony enabled this Arabian trade to flourish into a major industry.

    * The land of Goshen has a name that comes from an Arabic group who only dominated the Nile Delta in the 6th and 5th centuries.

    * The Egyptian Pharaoh is portrayed as fearing invasion from the east, even though Egypt's territory stretched to the northern parts of Canaan, with its main threat consequently being from the north, until the 7th century


The book comments that this corresponds with the documentary hypothesis, in which textual scholarship argues for the majority of the first five biblical books being written between the 8th and 6th centuries.

Finkelstein and Silberman argue that instead of the Israelites conquering Canaan after the Exodus (as suggested by the book of Joshua), most of them had in fact always been there; the Israelites were simply Canaanites who developed into a distinct culture.Recent surveys of long-term settlement patterns in the Israelite heartlands show no sign of violent invasion or even peaceful infiltration, but rather a sudden demographic transformation about 1200 BCE in which villages appear in the previously unpopulated highlands;these settlements have a similar appearance to modern Bedouin camps, suggesting that the inhabitants were once pastoral nomads, driven to take up farming by the Late Bronze Age collapse of the Canaanite city-culture.




No historical David/Solomon

http://prophetess.lstc.edu/~rklein/Doc6/dsmyth.htm

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/judaism/0160Solomon.php

Also, the quote from Jeremiah 7:22 contradicts directly the laws/regulations of the Leviticus. There have been attempts to explain this quote (Jeremiah 7:22 For in the day that I brought your ancestors out of Egypt, I did not speak to them or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices...) within the context of figurative language, an argument which can be contradicted immediately:

http://www.awitness.org/lostmess/fprophet.html

http://www.awitness.org/essays/levjer.html



Therefore, we do have a confirmation of the facts presented in Dr. Fomenko's work: official chronology has been invented/falsified very recently, according to Fomenko during the 16th to 18th centuries.

Fomenko also proves quite clearly that the Old and New Testaments were invented during the Renaissance, as does the brilliant work of Edwin Johnson, The Pauline Epistles.



Read again the absolute proof that the Council of Nicaea could not have taken place before the year 876-877 AD, a devastating blow to the official line according to which this Council convened in the year 325 AD.


http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,56624.msg1416447.html#msg1416447



Inscription mentioning Pompeii and Herculaneum as thriving cities in the year 1631 AD:





POMPEIOS HERCULANEUM OCTAVIANUM, PERSTRICTIS REАTINA Porticu ET

In the official chronology, on the list of cities affected by the eruption of the volcano Vesuvius in 1631, are to be found Resina and Portici right next to Pompeii and Herculaneum.


http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ilya.it%2Fchrono%2Fpages%2Fpompejidt.htm&sl=de&tl=en


The map Neapoletanum Regnum by Ortelius (Renaissance's greatest cartographer) does show Pompeii as a city in full activity in the year 1570 AD.


From History: Fiction or Science, pg. 93 and 94:




R. Newton is one of the most prestigious astrophysicists of the 20th century, here is the impecable analysis of the ancient astronomical records:

http://www.pereplet.ru/gorm/atext/newton1.htm

http://hbar.phys.msu.ru/gorm/atext/newton2.htm


The D" parameter dating does show that each and every astronomical record attributed to the period 300 BC - 1200 AD has been falsified later in time.


One of the greatest archeologists in the world, Dr. Gunnar Heinsohn is convinced that the period 2100 BC - 600 BC was invented much later in time:

http://www.specialtyinterests.net/heinsohn.html
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 03:46:47 AM by sandokhan »
[-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU77oWSoC-g]

Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2012, 05:39:17 AM »
i have no doubt that some of the information you give is interesting and somehow puzzling, but fortunately there are a lot of dating methods (and not only carbon 14) which can give proofs and therefore discard ludicrous ideas such as the Great wall built in the xixth century.

Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2012, 09:35:27 AM »
please give sandokhan's post some consideration, he or she was given three blue squares by the FE elite.

Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2012, 01:35:02 PM »
so he is always right?

Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2012, 01:27:56 AM »
Isotopic dating: science or fiction?

http://www.atenizo.org/evolution-c14-kar.htm (must read)


Ice core dating: science or fiction?

http://www.detectingdesign.com/ancientice.html (must read)




http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/dating.html (must read)

http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~do_while/sage/v8i9f.htm (must read)



http://evolutionfacts.com/Ev-V1/1evlch07a.htm

http://evolutionfacts.com/Ev-V1/1evlch07b.htm

http://evolutionfacts.com/Appendix/a07.htm


Here is the dean of the faculty of mathematics/mechanics at the Moscow University, A. Fomenko, explaining to you how the radiodating CANNOT be used at all, EVEN FOR ARTIFACTS THOUGHT TO BE JUST 1000 (OR UNDER 1000 YEARS) YEARS OLD:

http://books.google.ro/books?id=YcjFAV4WZ9MC&printsec=frontcover&dq=history+science+or+fiction&cd=2&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

CHAPTER I, SECTIONS 14, 15, 16, 17, THEY START ON PAGE 71



Thermochronology/geochemical analysis errors:

http://www.tasc-creationscience.org/other/plaisted/www.cs.unc.edu/_plaisted/ce/dating2.html (exceptionally documented)

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/aid/v4/n1/false-isochrons



http://grazian-archive.com/quantavolution/vol_03/chaos_creation_03.htm (collapsing tests of time)


FAINT YOUNG SUN PARADOX: a complete and devastating blow to all the dating methods and to the theory of evolution in particular:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,30499.msg1312927.html#msg1312927



The extraordinary demonstration and precise proofs that Copernicus was a fictional character invented at least after 1600 AD and the works attributed to him, were actually written by the historical figure known as Johannes Kepler:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,30499.msg1274485.html#msg1274485




We have already seen that the eruption of Vesuvius which destroyed both Pompeii and Herculaneum must have occurred at least after the year 1700 a.d.

Eusebius, Historia Ecclesiastica:

CHAPTER V.
The Last Siege of the Jews after Christ.

AFTER Nero had held the power thirteen years, and Galba and Otho had ruled a year and six months, Vespasian, who had become distinguished in the campaigns against the Jews, was proclaimed sovereign in Judea and received the title of Emperor from the armies there. Setting out immediately, therefore, for Rome, he entrusted the conduct of the war against the Jews to his son Titus.

But E. Johnson was able to prove that the Pauline Epistles were copied and developed from Eusebius' Historia Ecclesiastica, see:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php?topic=48357.msg1191856#msg1191856

Historia Ecclesiastica could not have been written before 1720 a.d., since it mentions both Vespasian and Titus:

Perhaps most important thing about the reign of Titus was his handling of the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius. Though the Jews claimed that the disaster that struck was God's vengeance against Rome, Titus' speedy and exhaustive efforts at relief likely went a long way towards winning him a permanent place in the hearts of the people.



Eusebius is an admirer of Josephus...

According to my mind Eusebius, who first cites this passage, was its author. Eusebius himself was a historian who admired Josephus very much and made a thorough study of him...
Eusebius mentions Plinius the Elder:

Eusebius tells us in the name of Tertullian that when Pliny the Younger, governor of Bithynia, wrote to Trajan asking for instructions about the Christian race...

But according to the official chronology, Pliny the Elder (uncle of Pliny the Younger) died in the year 79 AD, at Misenum, right next to mount Vesuvius...

http://www.christianorigins.com/zeitlin.html


Josephus mentions clearly the fact that the eruption which destroyed Pompeii occurred in the year 79 AD:

According to Josephus, the temple was destroyed in August of 70 CE and Vesuvius destroyed Pompeii in August of 79 CE.

 
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/71712928/DrusilladaughterofHerodAgrippaI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drusilla_(daughter_of_Herod_Agrippa_I)

Their son perished together with his mother Drusilla, along with noted Roman historian Pliny the Elder plus most of the populations of Pompeii and Herculaneum in the AD 79 eruption of Mount Vesuvius.

Drusilla, eruption of Vesuvius mentioned by Josephus in Antiquities, xx 7.2

http://sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/index.htm#aoj (Jewish Antiquities by Josephus)

Chapter XX, section 7:

http://sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/ant-20.htm (Agrippa, Drusilla, eruption of Vesuvius)


Josephus was a fictional character invented at least after the year 1750 AD (see also http://www.revisedhistory.org/classical.htm )


Plutarch mentions the destruction of both Pompeii and Herculaneum in the year 79 a.d.:

http://www.lacma.org/eduprograms/EvesforEds/PompeiiandtheRomanVillaEssay.pdf

In the aftermath of the eruption, Greek historian and biographer Plutarch wrote: “Those who went there by daylight felt ignorance and uncertainty as to where Pompeii and Herculaneum had been situated.”

Isaac Newton mentions Plutarch:

http://www.pereplet.ru/gorm/fomenko/inewton.htm (A SHORT
CHRONICLE From the First Memory of things in Europe to the Conquest of Persia by Alexander the great, paragraf 3)


Georgius Syncellus based his Extract of Chronography on Historia Ecclesiastica and Chronicles written by "Eusebius"..
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06463a.htm

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/2004/2004-10-27.html


The work of Eusebius written and invented at least after the year 1500 AD:

http://www.egodeath.com/edwinjohnsonpaulineepistles.htm


J. Kepler in the work De Vero Anno (chronology of antiquity), is following the works of Josephus:

http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/documents/Dating%20the%20Birth%20of%20Jesus%20of%20Nazareth.htm



http://books.google.ro/books?id=0r68pggBSbgC&pg=PA228&lpg=PA228&dq=kepler+de+vero+anno+chronology&source=bl&ots=UvGKnxjzKK&sig=eNKCwN2jvlP19kP8-zNo50nbr5g&hl=ro&ei=JIwqTvq0BcbDtAa2x8yGDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=kepler%20de%20vero%20anno%20chronology&f=false (pg. 228)


Letters between Galilei and Kepler:

http://www.catholicintl.com/noncatholicissues/personal_lives.htm


Letters between Galilei and F. Bacon (disciple of John Dee):

http://www.sirbacon.org/mcompeer2.htm


Galilei, Kepler, and Newton were fictional characters invented at least after 1750 AD...


This is why the new radical chronology is so important to the flat earth movement/theory: it proves immediately that Copernicus, Galilei and Kepler were fictional characters invented at least after 1750 AD.



Christoph Pfister, one of the very best european historians, has discovered that there was no human settlement prior to 1700 AD in Switzerland, and that all gothic/medieval buildings and all ancients documents pertaining to the period 500 AD - 1600 AD in this country were actually built/created in the 18th Century AD. He also found out that the printing press was invented around 1730 AD, and wrote the exceptional book Matrix of Ancient History:

http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,30499.msg969919.html#msg969919



[-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU77oWSoC-g]

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Offline Lorddave

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Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2012, 03:35:08 AM »
Like most posts about Levee/shandokhan, this has nothing to do with the shape of the Earth.

I am therefore moving it to alternative science where it belongs.

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Offline The Knowledge

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Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2012, 05:45:41 AM »
What does any of this have to do with the shape of the Earth?

Oh, and I get called a permanoob?  ::)
Watermelon, Rhubarb Rhubarb, no one believes the Earth is Flat, Peas and Carrots,  walla.

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Offline Lorddave

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Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2012, 09:02:06 AM »
What does any of this have to do with the shape of the Earth?

Oh, and I get called a permanoob?  ::)
RW is a noob with 39 posts.
You are a permanoob because you have over 2,000 posts.

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Offline The Knowledge

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Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2012, 10:42:59 AM »
What does any of this have to do with the shape of the Earth?

Oh, and I get called a permanoob?  ::)
RW is a noob with 39 posts.
You are a permanoob because you have over 2,000 posts.

Again, I have to go step by step with you:
I quoted YOUR post about relevance to the shape of the earth.
YOU should be aware that NO posts by Levee have any relevance to the shape of the earth, with over twelve thousand posts to your name. You have clearly lurked enuff.

 ::)
Watermelon, Rhubarb Rhubarb, no one believes the Earth is Flat, Peas and Carrots,  walla.

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Offline Lorddave

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Re: FE Thinking - Pompeian fresco's prove history conspiracy, a Levee classic
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2012, 11:21:50 AM »
What does any of this have to do with the shape of the Earth?

Oh, and I get called a permanoob?  ::)
RW is a noob with 39 posts.
You are a permanoob because you have over 2,000 posts.

Again, I have to go step by step with you:
I quoted YOUR post about relevance to the shape of the earth.
YOU should be aware that NO posts by Levee have any relevance to the shape of the earth, with over twelve thousand posts to your name. You have clearly lurked enuff.

 ::)
Ummmm... Levee has quite a few posts about the shape of the Earth.
I know, I've debated him on the subject a few times.

Also: this thread was started by RW to debate levee's assertion of incorrect history. That has nothing to do with debating the flat earth.
The post levee made was in the believer's section so and thus isn't moderated for Earth Shape content.