New - Free fall from space record attempt!

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FlatOrange

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New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« on: October 09, 2012, 12:50:44 AM »
This is going to happen very soon!

"New Mexico, USA, – Austrian extreme athlete Felix Baumgartner and the Red Bull Stratos team are making the final preparations for their attempt to break Colonel Joe Kittinger’s 52-year-old record by freefalling 36,576 metres (120,000 feet) from a  balloon in the stratosphere. "

Red Bull Stratos website
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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2012, 05:29:16 AM »
Is he going to be higher than the flat disc sun? AWESOME!

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iwanttobelieve

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #2 on: October 09, 2012, 06:35:37 AM »
the sun is spherical, and space flight is possible.
So why couldnt he jump???

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FlatOrange

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #3 on: October 09, 2012, 11:27:47 AM »
Ohhh, aborted for today due to gusty winds.  :(
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randomism

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #4 on: October 09, 2012, 11:33:11 AM »
So, who is going to ask him if it looks round from up there?

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FlatOrange

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2012, 11:44:33 AM »
A helium-filled balloon is taking him up; the specs are impressive.

"Once launched, Felix will float to 120,000 ft in less than 3 hours. The 30-million-cubic-foot helium balloon is 1/10 the thickness of a Ziploc bag, yet weighs more than 3,000 pounds. Stretched out it would cover about 40 acres."
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ThinkingMan

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2012, 11:49:30 AM »
They call that the edge of space... but he's only 36.5 km up when he jumps. 100 km is the scientific "edge of space," and he's not even half way there. It's just sensationalism.

A little food for thought, the ISS orbits at 450km and still experiences atmospheric drag.
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FlatOrange

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2012, 12:39:28 PM »
Semantics.  Does it really matter?  How far do you have to be till you're away from the Earth's gravitational pull?  Wouldn't that likely qualify as an edge of space? 

He's far enough away from Earth that a space suit is required for survival.  That's good enough for me.
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randomism

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2012, 12:43:44 PM »
How far do you have to be till you're away from the Earth's gravitational pull?  Wouldn't that likely qualify as an edge of space?

If you can free fall wouldn't that suggest you haven't escaped the Earth's gravitational pull, or am I missing something..? (note that I can't watch the video now so I'm going by your description)

(also, please no one post to tell me that you never escape something's gravitational pull, I mean getting to the point where the pull of something else overwhelms Earth's)

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FlatOrange

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2012, 12:48:07 PM »
I'm just saying 'edge of space' could have different meanings. The atmosphere is pretty thin there so it's pretty much the edge... w/e
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Ski

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2012, 03:54:59 PM »
How far do you have to be till you're away from the Earth's gravitational pull?

For someone with a physics degree, you make some baffling comments sometimes.
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FlatOrange

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2012, 04:05:17 PM »
My point was the edge is not so finite.

P.S. I've never encountered such failure to grasp elementary topics as found here.  My degree was not earned by arguing with Flat-Earthers.  You love to nitpick little things.  If you care to elaborate what was so befuddling, please do.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2012, 04:14:02 PM by FlatOrange »
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Ski

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2012, 04:40:46 PM »
So in your mind the space shuttle, for example, is free from earth's gravitational pull?
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2012, 06:28:24 PM »
The edge of space:
Karman line

Hope that helps.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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FlatOrange

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2012, 08:50:33 PM »
The edge of space:
Karman line

Hope that helps.
Quote from that link: "the definition of the edge of space could vary considerably"

So yes, it helped. Thanks.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2012, 09:05:20 PM »
The edge of space:
Karman line

Hope that helps.
Quote from that link: "the definition of the edge of space could vary considerably"

So yes, it helped. Thanks.

Well, maybe colloquially.  What you should have gotten from the link was that there is a scientifically-recognized definition for "edge of space" that is way, way higher than we're talking about here. 

I guess my problem is that I'm having trouble seeing how this is evidence for RE or against FE or whatever.  Things fall in both models.
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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FlatOrange

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2012, 09:45:40 PM »
It is an interesting read.  Do Flat Earthers have no room for gray area?

"This definition is accepted by the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI)."

"Although the United States does not officially define a boundary of space, the U.S. definition of an astronaut, which is still held today, is a person who has flown more than 50 miles (~80 km) above mean sea level. (This is approximately the line between the mesosphere and the thermosphere.) This definition of an astronaut had been somewhat controversial, due to differing definitions between the United States military and NASA.[8]"

"International law defines the lower boundary of space as the lowest perigee attainable by an orbiting space vehicle, but does not specify an altitude. Due to atmospheric drag, the lowest altitude at which an object in a circular orbit can complete at least one full revolution without propulsion is approximately 150 km (93 mi), while an object can maintain an elliptical orbit with perigee as low as 129 km (80 mi) with propulsion. [10]"

Do you see what I'm trying to say?  There's still drag above 100 km... they chose an arbitrary distance to call the edge.  It's not a natural law or anything.
 
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Ski

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2012, 09:55:17 PM »
I'm still confused that you think space begins where objects are away from earth's gravity.
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Roundy the Truthinessist

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2012, 10:29:10 PM »
It is an interesting read.  Do Flat Earthers have no room for gray area?

"This definition is accepted by the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI)."

"Although the United States does not officially define a boundary of space, the U.S. definition of an astronaut, which is still held today, is a person who has flown more than 50 miles (~80 km) above mean sea level. (This is approximately the line between the mesosphere and the thermosphere.) This definition of an astronaut had been somewhat controversial, due to differing definitions between the United States military and NASA.[8]"

"International law defines the lower boundary of space as the lowest perigee attainable by an orbiting space vehicle, but does not specify an altitude. Due to atmospheric drag, the lowest altitude at which an object in a circular orbit can complete at least one full revolution without propulsion is approximately 150 km (93 mi), while an object can maintain an elliptical orbit with perigee as low as 129 km (80 mi) with propulsion. [10]"

Do you see what I'm trying to say?  There's still drag above 100 km... they chose an arbitrary distance to call the edge.  It's not a natural law or anything.

You are still missing my point.  How does the fact that somebody is going to fall prove a round Earth?
Where did you educate the biology, in toulet?

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squevil

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2012, 10:58:51 PM »
it doesnt prove anything thats why i posted about this in arts and entertainment. i didnt notice this thread though. sorry if i posted a duplicate of the same subject!

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ThinkingMan

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2012, 06:03:38 AM »
(also, please no one post to tell me that you never escape something's gravitational pull, I mean getting to the point where the pull of something else overwhelms Earth's)

Damnit I was going to say that. You know, you could theoretically fall from outside the solar system and smack into the earth using slingshots as your only method of navigation.

How far do you have to be till you're away from the Earth's gravitational pull?

Infinitely far.
When Tom farts, the special gasses released open a sort of worm hole into the past. There Tom is able to freely discuss with Rowbotham all of his ideas and thoughts.

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Battery72

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2012, 11:33:31 PM »
So in your mind the space shuttle, for example, is free from earth's gravitational pull?

Actually the Space Shuttle or any object in orbit is in constant free fall. The reason it doesn't crash into earth is because it's going just fast enough to miss.

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Ski

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2012, 01:40:32 AM »
I'm familiar with how your model works; I'm not sure our local physics grad is.


How far do you have to be till you're away from the Earth's gravitational pull? Wouldn't that likely qualify as an edge of space?   

For someone with a physics degree, you make some baffling comments sometimes.
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markjo

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2012, 07:35:04 AM »
So in your mind the space shuttle, for example, is free from earth's gravitational pull?

Actually the Space Shuttle or any object in orbit is in constant free fall. The reason it doesn't crash into earth is because it's going just fast enough to miss.

Which is not the same thing as being free from the earth's gravitational pull.  In fact, the concept of earth orbit relies on the earth's gravitational pull, otherwise satellites would simply fly off into space.
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Battery72

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2012, 02:06:52 PM »
Austrian daredevil Felix Baumgartner has become the first man to break the sound barrier in a record-shattering freefall jump from the edge of space, organisers say.
There you go. he did it. BTW it's very clear the Earth is round. No amount of distortion can cater for what you will see in the picture.



http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2012/10/15/02/52/skydiver-prepares-to-break-sound-barrier
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 02:11:30 PM by Battery72 »

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randomism

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2012, 02:21:35 PM »
Very similar pictures were posted months ago: http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php/topic,55482.msg1382029.html#msg1382029

They're so similar that I'm not sure what's going on here - is this a separate launch of the same vehicle, to a higher altitude or something?

Anyway, Ski pointed out, and even referenced in his interview, that the video shows an image both with and without the wide angle lens. The wide angle version is highly distorted, and clearly shows distortion of more than just the earth's horizon. However, the big mistake that Ski made was to say that the non-wide picture shows no curvature of the earth's surface - while it might look this way (highly dependent on the bias of the viewer, I'm sure) if you draw a line through the endpoints of the horizon you will easily see there's curvature. Try it yourself if you don't believe me.

Just goes to show that trying to make points on subjective appearances instead of making actual measurements is a serious error.

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Ski

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2012, 02:24:21 PM »
BTW it's very clear the Earth is round. No amount of distortion can cater for what you will see in the picture.


"Never think you can turn over any old falsehood without a terrible squirming of the horrid little population that dwells under it." -O.W. Holmes "Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne.."

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Ski

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2012, 02:27:29 PM »
However, the big mistake that Ski made was to say that the non-wide picture shows no curvature of the earth's surface - while it might look this way (highly dependent on the bias of the viewer, I'm sure) if you draw a line through the endpoints of the horizon you will easily see there's curvature. Try it yourself if you don't believe me.

Did you watch the same mission that I did? ???






Just goes to show that trying to make points on subjective appearances instead of making actual measurements is a serious error.
[/quote]
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randomism

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2012, 02:44:36 PM »
Did you watch the same mission that I did? ???

Yes. I did watch it, and I immediately drew lines on the images in an image editor. Go to 2:54, where clearly the same camera is being used (not the wide angle one). Draw a line across the horizon. Upload the picture with the line drawn. You made the claim that it was flat so I'm charging you to do this.

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Battery72

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Re: New - Free fall from space record attempt!
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2012, 03:35:53 PM »
BTW it's very clear the Earth is round. No amount of distortion can cater for what you will see in the picture.


Thanks for that pic Ski. It actually streghthens my view. I remember Tom posting a pic of one of Felix's earlier jumps that showed the distortion clearly, the crossmembers above Felix bending with the wide agle lense. That showed me what to look for. In the picture from my link, the only curve is the horizon. The cross members above Felix are straight. So what is it? Distortion or Terminator line? Surely the Terminator line cannot be in the exact same place every time the is a space horizon shot.