The Possibility of Infinite Earth According to Genesis

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Offline New Earth

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The Possibility of Infinite Earth According to Genesis
« on: April 12, 2012, 04:15:54 PM »
Genesis Chapter 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty. Darkness was over the surface of the deep and the spirit of God hovering over the waters.

In this very first verse of the bible there is a lot of insight as to what the earth really is. Let's take a closer look at this verse. First we see that it says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" Here it clearly states that the earth was created not as a result of some big bang or long term cosmic evolution but rather at the same time as the rest of the universe. Earth was made in the very beginning of creation. What else was made? The heavens were made. What are the heavens? The heaven typically referred to sky and stars. This verse does not say that God created many earths or many planets or even what we call the outer space. No it just says heavens and earth.

So here its easy to see that the earth was a major creation. The earth was made in the beginning together with heavens. So is it logical to assume that the earth is just a tiny little globe located in the infinity of space? No it is not. The earth and heavens are most likely same size. In my view the heavens simply mean earth's atmosphere, the dimension of up. The earth plain is infinite. Therefore when FE FAQ explain the fact that the earth is special, it is indeed a very true statement.

Let's continue to read this verse, "Now the earth was formless and empty" Does it say that the earth was a sphere? No it says that the earth was formless. Now what does it mean formless? I mean it must have some form? Actually no, if indeed the earth is an infinite plain or a slab then its accurate to call it formless, because infinite objects have no defined shape. Flat is just a simplified description of an infinite slab. Never does the bible say that the earth became a globe or a sphere, it states clearly that it was made formless, meaning infinite.

Thank you for your time.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 12:51:46 PM by New Earth »
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Offline Graff

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2012, 04:27:16 PM »
It depends on your translation, first off.
Also; you only supplied startpoint verse. Rather than the start and end.
Try this next time: Genesis 1:1-1.2.
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
That is what my translation says. King James Version.

Anywho; just so you know: Not all folk here are believers, and even those who are won't look at this and agree.
I look at this and think someone is taking things too literally.

As far as your heavens bit goes: That depends entirely on perspective.
Could space not be the heavens?
Or even the other planets? It depends on the reader. You can't just claim proof based on your opinion.

When I read the "earth was formless and empty" rather than think that this means it is infinite, which is a rather silly idea, I think that it was not yet formed. Not yet complete. Clay in one's hands, as it were. If you had a lump of clay, what hasn't yet been shaped, would you not call it formless?

Again, this is opinion at most.
The bible is open to interpretation.
Because of this; it depends on how you read, and how you relate.
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Offline chuck22

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2012, 04:31:48 PM »
Great points for thought.  Infinity can't be grasped and it stands to reason that it could also be formless. 
"...let there be..."

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Offline Graff

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2012, 04:33:44 PM »
Great points for thought.  Infinity can't be grasped and it stands to reason that it could also be formless.
Infinity can't be grasped, yes. But is not flat a form?
Even if it were infinite, wouldn't flat be what it is?

Why must formless mean infinite? Why not a yet unshapen lumb
God bless the Enclave.

Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2012, 04:38:52 PM »
as Zetetics, we assume, because the earth is a disc, (planar), and that no edge has been found,
it is endless. 

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Offline chuck22

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2012, 05:29:04 PM »
Great points for thought.  Infinity can't be grasped and it stands to reason that it could also be formless.
Infinity can't be grasped, yes. But is not flat a form?
Even if it were infinite, wouldn't flat be what it is?

Why must formless mean infinite? Why not a yet unshapen lumb

From a two dimensional perspective, I could agree with your assessment.  However, from a three dimensional perspective; I can not.  An infinite plane couldn't be defined in terms of a shape.  It might appear to be a particular shape but you would never see the whole and therefore you could never determine the actual shape.  And a simple way of explaining this concept could be accomplished by utilizing the word: Formless.
"...let there be..."

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Offline Graff

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2012, 05:34:14 PM »
Great points for thought.  Infinity can't be grasped and it stands to reason that it could also be formless.
Infinity can't be grasped, yes. But is not flat a form?
Even if it were infinite, wouldn't flat be what it is?

Why must formless mean infinite? Why not a yet unshapen lumb

From a two dimensional perspective, I could agree with your assessment.  However, from a three dimensional perspective; I can not.  An infinite plane couldn't be defined in terms of a shape.  It might appear to be a particular shape but you would never see the whole and therefore you could never determine the actual shape.  And a simple way of explaining this concept could be accomplished by utilizing the word: Formless.
Formless is too wide a definition, though.
Formless could mean anything. Unshapen lump, as I said.
Endless would've better as to define it. That or infinite, of course.

It entirely depends on perspective, and as such is hardly proof.
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Offline markjo

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2012, 05:43:35 PM »
as Zetetics, we assume, because the earth is a disc, (planar), and that no edge has been found,
it is endless.

Umm...  No.  As zetetics, you aren't supposed to assume anything.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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Offline chuck22

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2012, 05:56:41 PM »
as Zetetics, we assume, because the earth is a disc, (planar), and that no edge has been found,
it is endless.

Umm...  No.  As zetetics, you aren't supposed to assume anything.

As Zetetics, "Formless" or "Shapeless" fits the bill nicely.
"...let there be..."

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Offline Pongo

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2012, 06:13:37 PM »
as Zetetics, we assume, because the earth is a disc, (planar), and that no edge has been found,
it is endless.

First, not all flat Earther's are zetetics. Second, to address the OP, the only thing that the Bible proves is that people ~2K years ago were literate.

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Offline Graff

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2012, 06:22:12 PM »
as Zetetics, we assume, because the earth is a disc, (planar), and that no edge has been found,
it is endless.

Umm...  No.  As zetetics, you aren't supposed to assume anything.

As Zetetics, "Formless" or "Shapeless" fits the bill nicely.
As Zetetics, surely you realize that "Formless" or "shapeless" are very broad definitions, do you not?
God bless the Enclave.

Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2012, 06:24:34 PM »
as Zetetics, we assume, because the earth is a disc, (planar), and that no edge has been found,
it is endless.

Umm...  No.  As zetetics, you aren't supposed to assume anything.

As Zetetics, "Formless" or "Shapeless" fits the bill nicely.
As Zetetics, surely you realize that "Formless" or "shapeless" are very broad definitions, do you not?
And still the applying those two words to the FE are assumptions, unfounded and unsupported.
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Offline rayman

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2012, 08:04:16 PM »
I fail to understand how a bible verse can be used as evidence to prove FET.

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Offline Graff

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2012, 08:17:04 PM »
I fail to understand how a bible verse can be used as evidence to prove FET.
Agreed.
Not to mention such a verse so subject to opinion and assumption...
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Offline New Earth

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2012, 09:16:08 PM »
I fail to understand how a bible verse can be used as evidence to prove FET.


I fail to understand how godless conventional science be used to prove RET.
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Offline OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2012, 09:17:49 PM »
I fail to understand how a bible verse can be used as evidence to prove FET.


I fail to understand how godless conventional science be used to prove RET.

Science is over your head?  It is all becoming clearer now.

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Offline New Earth

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2012, 09:22:47 PM »
Science is not over my head, I just refuse to be brainwashed by it. But we are not going to discuss whether science is good or bad, its just when the dude arrogantly discredited the bible, I played his game and fought fire with fire.
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Offline Rushy

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2012, 09:28:23 PM »
I remember this one time I wrote a sentence, put God in it, and it automagically became infallibly correct.

Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2012, 09:28:57 PM »
Science is not over my head, I just refuse to be brainwashed by it. But we are not going to discuss whether science is good or bad, its just when the dude arrogantly discredited the bible, I played his game and fought fire with fire.
How did "the dude" discredit the Bible? All I see was a fair question. Why would we use a Bible verse in determining the shape of the Earth?

Would you use a comic book page to determine the location of the nearest malt shop?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Offline OrbisNonSufficit

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2012, 09:31:52 PM »
Science is not over my head, I just refuse to be brainwashed by it. But we are not going to discuss whether science is good or bad, its just when the dude arrogantly discredited the bible, I played his game and fought fire with fire.

He did not "arrogantly discredit the bible, he asked how it could be used as evidence of a Flat earth.

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Offline Graff

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2012, 09:59:38 PM »
I fail to understand how a bible verse can be used as evidence to prove FET.


I fail to understand how godless conventional science be used to prove RET.
Two things:
One: "Godless"? Really? There are plenty of christian scientists.
Two: Again, and I cannot stress this enough, the bible is open to translation.
For each person it may say something different.
Reading through the bible, even the same verse, may yield something completely different.
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Offline hoppy

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2012, 04:21:31 AM »
The KJV bible(the true bible) says that God created the heaven and the earth. Heaven is singular possibly an indication that it does not go on forever.
God is real.                                         
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9665708/Flat-Earth-Bible-02-of-10-The-Flat-Earth

Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2012, 04:37:24 AM »
The KJV bible(the true bible) says that God created the heaven and the earth. Heaven is singular possibly an indication that it does not go on forever.
Do tell us how you know that the KJV is the "true" bible?

How does using the singular number of the word "heaven" in any way indicate that it does not go on forever, in expanse or time?

The original Hebrew "shamayim" seems to better translate to "heavens" anyways. Reference: http://www.religioustolerance.org/crebegin.htm
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Offline hoppy

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2012, 04:57:31 AM »
The KJV bible(the true bible) says that God created the heaven and the earth. Heaven is singular possibly an indication that it does not go on forever.
Do tell us how you know that the KJV is the "true" bible?

How does using the singular number of the word "heaven" in any way indicate that it does not go on forever, in expanse or time?

The original Hebrew "shamayim" seems to better translate to "heavens" anyways. Reference: http://www.religioustolerance.org/crebegin.htm


I have done research on bible translations. KJV is the truest translation, other ones are changed for the sake of change. Copyright laws prevent not changing new translations. KJV is the only text without a copyright(man not making money).

shamayim in your link , it says should be translated" sky". That makes sense if there is a dome over the flat earth.
God is real.                                         
http://www.scribd.com/doc/9665708/Flat-Earth-Bible-02-of-10-The-Flat-Earth

Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2012, 05:19:08 AM »
The KJV bible(the true bible) says that God created the heaven and the earth. Heaven is singular possibly an indication that it does not go on forever.
Do tell us how you know that the KJV is the "true" bible?

How does using the singular number of the word "heaven" in any way indicate that it does not go on forever, in expanse or time?

The original Hebrew "shamayim" seems to better translate to "heavens" anyways. Reference: http://www.religioustolerance.org/crebegin.htm


I have done research on bible translations. KJV is the truest translation, other ones are changed for the sake of change. Copyright laws prevent not changing new translations. KJV is the only text without a copyright(man not making money).

shamayim in your link , it says should be translated" sky". That makes sense if there is a dome over the flat earth.
So it's your research that determines which bible translation is the "true bible". You must be very special.

You're also wrong about the copyright statement. There are many translations that are not copyrighted, including the 1901 American Standard Version and  the World English Bible.

So, again "heavens" is more accurate than "heaven" for G1:1. Again, why does the singular number indicate that it does not go on forever?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Offline New Earth

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2012, 05:39:20 AM »
Science is not over my head, I just refuse to be brainwashed by it. But we are not going to discuss whether science is good or bad, its just when the dude arrogantly discredited the bible, I played his game and fought fire with fire.
How did "the dude" discredit the Bible? All I see was a fair question. Why would we use a Bible verse in determining the shape of the Earth?

Would you use a comic book page to determine the location of the nearest malt shop?


So the bible is as good as comic book? And you are actually trying to tell me that you are not putting it down? Well dear leftie, to me your theory of evolution is a funny read, yet you do not see me comparing Charles Darwin to Joker lol
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Offline iWitness

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2012, 06:27:56 AM »
Proverbs 8:27 "When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,"

I too, believe that all matter is infinitely connected to our Creator, and that our known universe is inside the Vault/Dome of Heaven.

    Isaiah 45:12, I, with my own hands, stretched out the heavens [shamayim] and caused all their host to shine...

    Isaiah 48:13, ...with my right hand I formed the expanse of the sky [shamayim]...

From: http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

It's gotten to a point where there is no possible way that the Bible could be so accurate yet contain a bunch of metaphors and stories not to be taken literally. How did Moses describe Creation so well thousands of years ago?

How can the Bible's explanations for the shape of the earth be spot on?
Disclaimer: I am confused. Everything I say is speculative and not admissible in a court of law; however, I am neither insane nor a threat to myself or others. I am simply curious about everything in life and enjoy talking about crazy shit. Oh, & btw I like turtles.

Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2012, 07:06:44 AM »
Proverbs 8:27 "When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,"

I too, believe that all matter is infinitely connected to our Creator, and that our known universe is inside the Vault/Dome of Heaven.

    Isaiah 45:12, I, with my own hands, stretched out the heavens [shamayim] and caused all their host to shine...

    Isaiah 48:13, ...with my right hand I formed the expanse of the sky [shamayim]...

From: http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

It's gotten to a point where there is no possible way that the Bible could be so accurate yet contain a bunch of metaphors and stories not to be taken literally. How did Moses describe Creation so well thousands of years ago?

How can the Bible's explanations for the shape of the earth be spot on?
Let's see if I understand your reasoning...

In general:

1) <thing> is accurate about a large number of things according to you.
2) <thing> says that "A" is true.
--> therefore A is true.

Specifically:
1) Bible [is] so accurate according to iWitness.
2) Bible says that the Earth is flat according to iWitness
--> iWitness concludes that the Earth is flat.

Let me try an example, [urlhttp://www.vegetarianusa.com/physics/essentialphysics1.pdf]Essential Physics Part I[/url].

1) Essential Physics is so accurate according to me.
2) Essential Physics says the Earth is flat.
3) Everyone who agrees that Essential Physic is so accurate concludes that the Earth is a globe.

So what was your point again?
Keep it serious, Thork. You can troll, but don't be so open. We have standards

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Offline iWitness

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2012, 07:56:32 AM »
Proverbs 8:27 "When he established the heavens, I was there; when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,"

I too, believe that all matter is infinitely connected to our Creator, and that our known universe is inside the Vault/Dome of Heaven.

    Isaiah 45:12, I, with my own hands, stretched out the heavens [shamayim] and caused all their host to shine...

    Isaiah 48:13, ...with my right hand I formed the expanse of the sky [shamayim]...

From: http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm

It's gotten to a point where there is no possible way that the Bible could be so accurate yet contain a bunch of metaphors and stories not to be taken literally. How did Moses describe Creation so well thousands of years ago?

How can the Bible's explanations for the shape of the earth be spot on?
Let's see if I understand your reasoning...

In general:

1) <thing> is accurate about a large number of things according to you.
2) <thing> says that "A" is true.
--> therefore A is true.

Specifically:
1) Bible [is] so accurate according to iWitness.
2) Bible says that the Earth is flat according to iWitness
--> iWitness concludes that the Earth is flat.

Let me try an example, [urlhttp://www.vegetarianusa.com/physics/essentialphysics1.pdf]Essential Physics Part I[/url].

1) Essential Physics is so accurate according to me.
2) Essential Physics says the Earth is flat.
3) Everyone who agrees that Essential Physic is so accurate concludes that the Earth is a globe.

So what was your point again?


Actually it happened more like this:

1. Stumble on Flat Earth Society
2. Read information
3. Think
4. Conclude earth is flat
5. Bible also says earth is flat
6. Bible is AWESOME
Disclaimer: I am confused. Everything I say is speculative and not admissible in a court of law; however, I am neither insane nor a threat to myself or others. I am simply curious about everything in life and enjoy talking about crazy shit. Oh, & btw I like turtles.

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Offline rayman

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Re: Evidence of infinite earth in the bible
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2012, 08:27:53 AM »
I was always under the impression that FET was trying to prove itself in the scientific realm. If FET is a science it should be discussed as a science, not as a religion.