Author Topic: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics  (Read 4162 times)

Offline Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2011, 01:13:50 PM »
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2. Who is Cass?


You or a practically identical poster.

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3. What does God have anything to with with this thread? Why bring it up?


I'm already regretting asking this but what do you propose as an evolution alternative?

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4. Big Bang has many flaws, science has moved on past that theory.


Not quite, it's been refined but the basic premise that all energy and mass in this universe originated from a small point hasn't really changed

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5. Give the exact quote where i said the earth is a "closed system". I never said the earth was a closed system.


Exactly, the 2LTd only applies to closed systems.
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The earth is neither open or closed it is beyond either.


Wrong. Also: Nonsensical.

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We all know that sunlight heats the surface of Earth.  For most practical purposes, however, Earth is a closed system.  Why is that?  The mass of the planet is essentially constant in time.  Molecules in our atmosphere are attracted to Earth by gravity and do not migrate off into space.  This is not true of the Moon or asteroids.


Energy is radiated into space all the time.

It's how this picture is possible:

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6. Trying reading what is typed instead of making assumptions!


Re-read. Twice. You're still wrong.

Offline Vindictus

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2011, 01:49:58 PM »

1. Not a "copy and pasta" from the internet. If it is paste me the link i copied it from?.

2. Who is Cass?

3. What does God have anything to with with this thread? Why bring it up?

4. Big Bang has many flaws, science has moved on past that theory.

5. Give the exact quote where i said the earth is a "closed system". I never said the earth was a closed system.

The earth is neither open or closed it is beyond either.



If you want to find another example of this argument, google 'evolution vs creationism'. There's at least one fundie on every forum that uses the Big bang/evolution and 2nd law argument. It's a tried and true troll argument, but it also sucks for plainly obvious reasons.

Given the amount of obvious problems with the argument, it isn't long before God is mentioned and the thread spirals into crap.

Offline Lorddave

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2011, 07:07:21 PM »
Evolution on the other hand is supposed to move onwards and upwards from particles to molecules to simple life and finally arrive at man whose brain is the most complex, organized material in the universe.

Since everyone else is covering the rest of your post I thought I'd start here....
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Evolution on the other hand is supposed to move onwards and upwards from particles to molecules
WRONG!
Evolution only talks about the change in an organism.
Ambiogenesis is the creation of life from molecules.

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man whose brain is the most complex, organized material in the universe.
Please cite this source.  The human brain is not only a sloppy collection of neurons that has no organization we can detect BUT it's also not a material.  Nerve cells aren't even a material.
Wanna know a really really organized material?  Diamonds.  Those carbon atoms are so perfectly organized you can see through them.

Offline Cassiterides

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2011, 07:25:48 PM »
''Evolution only talks about the change in an organism.
Ambiogenesis is the creation of life from molecules''
====

Abiogenesis = the theory of organic evolution.

Like macroevolution this has never been observed though, so its not apart of science. Just another faith/speculation/assumption.
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Offline Lorddave

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2011, 07:41:31 PM »
''Evolution only talks about the change in an organism.
Abiogenesis is the creation of life from molecules''
====

Abiogenesis = the theory of organic evolution.

Like macroevolution this has never been observed though, so its not apart of science. Just another faith/speculation/assumption.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
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n natural science, abiogenesis (pronounced /ˌeɪbaɪ.ɵˈdʒɛnɨsɪs/, AY-bye-oh-JEN-ə-siss) or biopoesis is the study of how life arises from inorganic matter through natural processes, and the method by which life on Earth arose.


http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/
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biogenesis is the field of science dedicated to studying how life might have arisen for the first time on the primordial young Earth.


http://www.iscid.org/encyclopedia/Abiogenesis
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Abiogenesis is the proposal that life emerged from non-life.


http://darwiniana.org/abiogenesis.htm
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Abiogenesis is about the origin of life. Evolution, technically, is about what happened after life arose on Earth.


http://creationwiki.org/Origin_of_life
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Creationists believe that life was created by God, whereas the naturalists contend that organisms originated through purely natural processes from nonliving, inanimate material at some point in the very distant past. This theory is commonly known as abiogenesis (Greek a "without", bios "life", and genesis "beginning, origin").


Sorry for my misspelling but you really should learn the definition of a word BEFORE you respond to it.

Offline Cassiterides

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2011, 08:09:06 PM »
6 different types of evolution

Cosmic evolution: the origin of time, space, and matter from nothing in the “big bang”
Chemical evolution: all elements “evolved” from hydrogen
Stellar evolution: stars and planets formed from gas clouds
Organic evolution: life begins from inanimate matter
Macro-evolution: animals and plants change from one type into another
Micro-evolution: minor variations/adapations

First 5 have never been observed, tested or repeated.

Only number 6 *microevolution is science.

You can still believe in the first 5 as your religion/faith though, but they are not science.
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Offline berny_74

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2011, 08:28:08 PM »

Macro-evolution: animals and plants change from one type into another
Micro-evolution: minor variations/adapations
Only number 6 *microevolution is science.

You can still believe in the first 5 as your religion/faith though, but they are not science.


Nicholas Matzke and Paul R. Gross have accused creationists of using "strategically elastic" definitions of micro- and macroevolution when discussing the topic.[1] The actual definition of macroevolution accepted by scientists is "any change at the species level or above" (phyla, group, etc.) and microevolution is "any change below the level of species." Matzke and Gross state that many creationist critics define macroevolution as something that cannot be attained, as these critics describe any observed evolutionary change as "just microevolution".[1]


The reason why only "micro-evolution" is accepted by Creationists is that they just adjust the bar to suit their needs.

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Contrary to this belief among the anti-evolution movement proponents, evolution of life forms beyond the species level ("macroevolution", i.e. speciation in a specific case) has indeed been observed multiple times under both controlled laboratory conditions and in nature.


And I point you out to the humble skink

Of course you'll just move the bar a little bit again won't you.

Berny
Thinks Macro and Micro terms should be banned from evolutionary debates.


To be fair, sometimes what FE'ers say makes so little sense that it's hard to come up with a rebuttal.
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Offline Trekky0623

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2011, 09:28:37 PM »
6 different types of evolution

Cosmic evolution: the origin of time, space, and matter from nothing in the “big bang”
Chemical evolution: all elements “evolved” from hydrogen
Stellar evolution: stars and planets formed from gas clouds
Organic evolution: life begins from inanimate matter
Macro-evolution: animals and plants change from one type into another
Micro-evolution: minor variations/adapations

First 5 have never been observed, tested or repeated.

Only number 6 *microevolution is science.

You can still believe in the first 5 as your religion/faith though, but they are not science.

I swear to god, you're stealing from Kent Hovind.

Okay, here we go:

1. Cosmic evolution: No one has ever called what you're describing this. There is no set theory for the creation of the universe.

2. Chemical evolution: Happens all the time in the sun. It's called nuclear fusion. Hydrogen being converted to helium. Look at the sun sometime.

3. Stellar evolution: What, like a nebula? A stellar nursery where stars are forming?

4. Organic evolution: Abiogenesis, in other words. And there are several theories, but the fact is if we concede that supernatural is not science, then life had to come from somewhere.

5. Macroevolution: See fruit flies.

6. Microevolution

Five and six are under the same category of biological evolution, which is what we are discussing and run from the same process. Now please, keep on topic and stop bringing up totally separate processes that also have the word "evolution" in them.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2011, 02:31:45 AM by Trekky0623 »

Offline Raist

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2011, 02:07:54 AM »
6 different types of evolution

Cosmic evolution: the origin of time, space, and matter from nothing in the “big bang”
Chemical evolution: all elements “evolved” from hydrogen
Stellar evolution: stars and planets formed from gas clouds
Organic evolution: life begins from inanimate matter
Macro-evolution: animals and plants change from one type into another
Micro-evolution: minor variations/adapations

First 5 have never been observed, tested or repeated.

Only number 6 *microevolution is science.

You can still believe in the first 5 as your religion/faith though, but they are not science.

Cass, you just misdefined a word and now you are going to claim you are an expert on what is science? This is sad.

Offline Trekky0623

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2011, 02:32:52 AM »
The chemical evolution one was pretty damn funny. It's like he doesn't look stuff up or something. Oh wait...


Offline Dave

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2011, 09:23:01 AM »
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Cosmic evolution: the origin of time, space, and matter from nothing in the “big bang”

The Big Bang Theory does NOT claim that everything came from NOTHING. Creationism, does though.  ;)
"None of you know what science is. That is why you argue over the net." ~ Truthseeker2

Offline Chris Spaghetti

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2011, 02:41:07 PM »
 
 That thread seemed like something very different.
 Did you like it?
 No.
 Then it wasn't different.
 ohhohohoho!

Offline Trekky0623

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2011, 02:46:09 PM »

 That thread seemed like something very different.
 Did you like it?
 No.
 Then it wasn't different.
 ohhohohoho!


Your job is to now to solely these posts.

Offline Daz555

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2011, 08:50:24 AM »
What does this have to do with Batman?

Offline HR Puff N Stuff

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2011, 10:54:16 AM »
There's at least one fundie on every forum that uses the Big bang/evolution and 2nd law argument.

Yep - and it's usually the same guy.  Cassiterides. 

Offline Raist

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2011, 10:56:17 AM »
What does this have to do with Batman?

Exactly. Despite your low post count you can at least stay on topic. This noob is going places.

Offline Trekky0623

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2011, 01:18:17 PM »
What does this have to do with Batman?

You'll fit right in, good man.

Offline EnglshGentleman

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2011, 02:45:02 PM »
Why isn't Cass banned yet? All he does it makes alts to make threads, and then he replies to them.

He has like 4 sockpuppet accounts here.

Also, this is ridiculous:

 
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It then violates the second law of thermodynamics by creating an ordered universe from an explosion. Explosions do not produce order, but chaos. The proposed Big Bang would have been a destructive event of unimaginable proportions, which could not have produced an ordered universe.

In case nobody knows, an expenditure of energy is always required to create order. Also, these fundies do not even understand how entropy works. They think, "It is either order, or chaos." when it really isn't. Entropy depends solely on the net change of the Universe.

Black holes seemingly order the universe since they pull matter into clumps, and even large galaxies, but at the same time, the blackhole creates such an increase of gravitational disorder, that there is still a net gain in the equation.

tl;dr A seemingly ordered universe is an entropic one.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 02:51:07 PM by EnglshGentleman »

Offline Beorn

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2011, 03:00:05 PM »
Also, not a closed system.
Yup.  Once you've had Dutch you never go.... non-Dutch.

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Offline Thevoiceofreason

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Re: Evolution violates the laws of thermodynamics
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2011, 01:13:04 AM »

1. Not a "copy and pasta" from the internet. If it is paste me the link i copied it from?.

2. Who is Cass?

3. What does God have anything to with with this thread? Why bring it up?

4. Big Bang has many flaws, science has moved on past that theory.

5. Give the exact quote where i said the earth is a "closed system". I never said the earth was a closed system.

The earth is neither open or closed it is beyond either.



If you want to find another example of this argument, google 'evolution vs creationism'. There's at least one fundie on every forum that uses the Big bang/evolution and 2nd law argument. It's a tried and true troll argument, but it also sucks for plainly obvious reasons.

Given the amount of obvious problems with the argument, it isn't long before God is mentioned and the thread spirals into crap.


Given that this forum is filled with tried and true troll arguments, I wouldn't give him to much hell