Is Australia bigger than USA?

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Is Australia bigger than USA?
« on: December 26, 2008, 07:28:27 AM »

On this map Australia looks twice as wide as the USA, and even bigger than Russia. Haven't the Aussies ever travelled from east coast to west coast, and noticed that they are the biggest country in the world? I thought they have trains already. Didn't they keep track of how much track it took to get from one coast to the other?


Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2008, 08:06:59 AM »
That's not a map of the FE, that's just a north azimuthal projection of the RE.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2008, 08:26:38 AM »
That's not a map of the FE,
Where can I see one?
that's just a north azimuthal projection of the RE.
It's from the FAQ


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Offline markjo

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Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2008, 08:38:01 AM »
That's not a map of the FE, that's just a north azimuthal projection of the RE.

I'm thinking that it's about as close to an accurate map of the FE as we ever are going to get.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
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Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
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It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2008, 08:38:58 AM »
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Where can I see one?

You can't because one doesn't exist. All maps here are hypothetical until someone goes out and charts the size, scope, and layout of the continents and oceans.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2008, 08:42:23 AM »
Quote
Where can I see one?

You can't because one doesn't exist. All maps here are hypothetical until someone goes out and charts the size, scope, and layout of the continents and oceans.

Then it's a good thing that RE'ers went out and did this for you otherwise international trade would never have gotten so big.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2008, 08:44:54 AM »
Then it's a good thing that RE'ers went out and did this for you otherwise international trade would never have gotten so big.

Do you have any data from the ship logs of those traders?

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Offline markjo

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Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2008, 08:49:23 AM »
Then it's a good thing that RE'ers went out and did this for you otherwise international trade would never have gotten so big.

Do you have any data from the ship logs of those traders?

Do you have a source of FE charts for navigation?  The fact that those traders are able to navigate all over the world and still make a profit suggests that the RE charts are accurate.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2008, 08:50:30 AM »
So I guess that's a "no," then.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2008, 09:18:02 AM »
Quote
Do you have any data from the ship logs of those traders?
Are they all part of the RE-conspiracy?

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Offline markjo

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Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2008, 01:22:45 PM »
So I guess that's a "no," then.

So you admit that there are no FE charts to navigate by?  Well, I suppose that's a start.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2008, 03:50:08 PM »
If you don't have any data from the logs of the people who do international trade, I'm not sure how you can use it as a proof for the particulars of your model. How are we supposed to know what kind of earth model they experience on the high seas?

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2008, 03:59:32 PM »
How are we supposed to know what kind of earth model they experience on the high seas?
They use the model that works for navigation. And since FET cannot even provide a world map yet, it is obviously not the one they are using.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2008, 04:05:38 PM »
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They use the model that works for navigation.

They're using a map. Maps are flat and don't portray the accurate distances depicted on a globe since it's impossible to accurately translate a globe into a flat map. Sailors are using Maps as a guideline. Their real objective in navigating is to get to a certain longitude and latitude. Sailors can just as well sail with the azimuthal projection at the top of this thread as they can with a Mercator projection.

How does using something inaccurate provide support for your model of the earth?

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2008, 04:29:48 PM »
Quote
They use the model that works for navigation.
They're using a map.
Actually they use GPS nowadays. How does this work in FET?
Their real objective in navigating is to get to a certain longitude and latitude.
And they don't notice that it takes 5 times longer to traverse the same longitude difference south of Australia then it takes in the northern pacific?

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2008, 05:25:21 PM »
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Actually they use GPS nowadays. How does this work in FET?

GPS tells you your latitude and longitude.

Quote
And they don't notice that it takes 5 times longer to traverse the same longitude difference south of Australia then it takes in the northern pacific?

I already told you, the map depicted in the first post isn't a FE map. It's a distorted RE map. There isn't an FE map.

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Offline The Yellow

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Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2008, 06:44:08 PM »
Australia is slightly larger than mainland USA. They are about the same.
Strange how RET has accurate, usable maps that show this. Maybe because they show the true shape and size of Earth perhaps?
Rowbotham was not right in all of his explanations. It doesn't help he wrote in victorian english, either.

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Offline markjo

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Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2008, 08:23:22 PM »
Quote
They use the model that works for navigation.

They're using a map. Maps are flat and don't portray the accurate distances depicted on a globe since it's impossible to accurately translate a globe into a flat map. Sailors are using Maps as a guideline. Their real objective in navigating is to get to a certain longitude and latitude. Sailors can just as well sail with the azimuthal projection at the top of this thread as they can with a Mercator projection.

How does using something inaccurate provide support for your model of the earth?

Actually, the flat maps do portray accurate distances depicted on the globe because either the maps show a small enough sections of the globe that any distortions are insignificant or the scale is adjusted to compensate for the distortions.  Either way, the scale is known and accurate measurements are possible.
Science is what happens when preconception meets verification.
Quote from: Robosteve
Besides, perhaps FET is a conspiracy too.
Quote from: bullhorn
It is just the way it is, you understanding it doesn't concern me.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2008, 10:59:50 PM »
Quote
Strange how RET has accurate, usable maps that show this. Maybe because they show the true shape and size of Earth perhaps

There's no such thing as a map which can create an accurate portrayal of a globe. Have you even seen the size of Greenland on a Mercator map?

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2008, 11:08:36 PM »
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Actually they use GPS nowadays. How does this work in FET?
GPS tells you your latitude and longitude.
And how does it compute them according to FET?

Quote
Quote
And they don't notice that it takes 5 times longer to traverse the same longitude difference south of Australia then it takes in the northern pacific?
I already told you, the map depicted in the first post isn't a FE map. It's a distorted RE map. There isn't an FE map.
The map is irrelevant here. If the north pole is the centre of a disc, then going away from it increases the circumferential distances.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2008, 11:12:41 PM »
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The map is irrelevant here. If the north pole is the centre of a disc, then going away from it increases the circumferential distances.

You would need to circumnavigate the entire earth at deep south latitude. Testing the distance between Australia and South America only tells us the distance between Australia and South America and nothing more.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2008, 11:29:09 PM »
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The map is irrelevant here. If the north pole is the centre of a disc, then going away from it increases the circumferential distances.
You would need to circumnavigate the entire earth at deep south latitude. Testing the distance between Australia and South America only tells us the distance between Australia and South America and nothing more.
There plenty of ships going:
- from Australia to South America
- from South America to South Africa
- from South Africa to Australia
The additional distance (as compared to RET) has to be noticeable on at least one of these routes. And yet no one ever noticed it?

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2008, 11:44:46 PM »
Quote
There plenty of ships going:
- from Australia to South America
- from South America to South Africa
- from South Africa to Australia

Those ships are all traveling along the same route between south america, south africa, and australia. No one is taking the scenic route across the pacific when traveling from south america to australia.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2008, 12:07:42 AM »
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There plenty of ships going:
- from Australia to South America
- from South America to South Africa
- from South Africa to Australia

Those ships are all traveling along the same route between south america, south africa, and australia.

And if this route was longer than in RE they would easily notice it.

No one is taking the scenic route across the pacific when traveling from south america to australia.

What do you mean by "scenic route"?

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2008, 01:02:02 AM »
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And if this route was longer than in RE they would easily notice it.

It is longer in RE theory. That's why no one takes it.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2008, 03:53:23 AM »
Those ships are all traveling along the same route between south america, south africa, and australia.
Quote
And if this route was longer than in RE they would easily notice it.
It is longer in RE theory. That's why no one takes it.
You are contradicting yourself. First you say all ships take this route, now you say no one takes it.

To clarify, in the quote above I mean:
And if this route was longer in reality than in RE they would easily notice it.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2008, 04:00:00 AM »
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You are contradicting yourself. First you say all ships take this route, now you say no one takes it.

No one takes the long route across the Pacific. All international trade between South America, Africa, and Australia is done along the Atlantic and Indian Oceans.

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And if this route was longer in reality than in RE they would easily notice it.

It's not longer. The south pacific ocean is longer.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2008, 04:57:08 AM »
No one takes the long route across the Pacific. All international trade between South America, Africa, and Australia is done along the Atlantic and Indian Oceans.
You claim that all ships from Australia to Chile head west trough Indian Ocean and Atlantic?

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Offline The Yellow

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Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2008, 05:24:40 AM »
We are also forgeting the annual round the world yaught race via the Southern ocean.
Round the World, non stop, westabout, singlehanded 21760 NM 
Bruno Peyron, 2005, set current windpowered circumnavigation record, 50 days, 16 hours, 20 minutes, aboard maxi catamaran Orange II
Rowbotham was not right in all of his explanations. It doesn't help he wrote in victorian english, either.

Re: Is Australia bigger than USA?
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2008, 09:10:15 AM »
No one takes the long route across the Pacific. All international trade between South America, Africa, and Australia is done along the Atlantic and Indian Oceans.

It looks like Quantas is taking the "long" route across the south Pacific:
http://www.qantas.com.au/content/dyn/routemaps/int/index
South Pacific route:
Sydney -> Buenos Aires : 13h
Indian Ocean, Atlantic route:
Sydney -> Johannesburg : 14h + Johannesburg -> Buenos Aires : 9.5h = 23.5h